2022/2023 Canyon ULTIMATE

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Roel W
Posts: 943
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:39 am
Location: Belgium

by Roel W

Some of the models have DT Swiss Performance LN wheels. Anymore info about these wheels as they don't have the 1800-1600-1400-1100 indicators?
Last edited by Roel W on Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

by Weenie


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Lina
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

justonwo wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:17 am
Lina wrote:
Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:01 pm
bananastand wrote:
Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:57 pm
Canyon is a brand I want nothing to do with. What’s been the appeal besides price? Seems like all of their bikes have nonsense design decisions that all seem oriented to cost cutting. Not at all appealing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Before this current generation of bikes they were cheaper and way ahead of the competition in design. Both the previous generation Aeroad and Ultimate were years ahead of anyone else in design. So much that they were both still good bikes that didn't lose anything to the competition even as the new model came out over half a decade later than the previous design was made. And all that at a very competitive price. Also the previous generation bikes didn't have any of the engineering and cost cutting issues. Especially with the Ultimate this is pretty evident. Other than full integration and D-shaped seat tube the new bike looks a lot like the old model because the old model was already really good and there wasn't much for them to improve.
But why not continue to stay ahead of the pack and move the product forward another quantum leap? It's hard to get excited about this new version of thr Ultimate. So little has changed.
Because there's only so much you can do within the UCI ruleset. Also both of the bikes are excellent in terms of specs when compared to the competition.

Andrew69
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am
Location: ɹǝpunuʍop

by Andrew69

njleach wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:16 am
justonwo wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:17 am
But why not continue to stay ahead of the pack and move the product forward another quantum leap? It's hard to get excited about this new version of thr Ultimate. So little has changed.
The new Ultimate CFR is about the same weight of the old model, isn't it?

So with the new model you're getting:
- Slightly better stiffness to weight
- Integrated cabling, and
- ~10W saving at 45km/h

I wonder how much of the 10W saving is simply due to the internal cable routing?
I have read that cables are costing you 1w per 10cm of exposed cable perpendicular to the wind

Daniel1975
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 pm

by Daniel1975

KalleWirsch wrote:
Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:07 pm
Road.cc says on youtube that the SLX and SL versions can´t handle 9x7 saddle rails for carbon saddles.
I have ordered Adapter GP0224-02 for oval rails with the new Ultimate.
Beginning of next week I can tell you if it fits with met SI SLR Kit Carbonio.

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wheelsONfire
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

thirdsun wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:25 am
wheelsONfire wrote:
Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:02 pm
Asked Canyon less than 4 weeks ago about changing the once piece bar/stem for a 10mm longer version.
Nope, you have to order one on the side and you know the rest.
I think that would be fine. Canyon simply doesn't do customization. The problem with the CP018 cockpit used in the Aeroad and the new Ultimate is that you can't even buy a replacement. It's simply not available.

I suspect that that is the customization Cycling Tips is speaking of: Bein able to order a different CP018 cockpit after purchase. Again, it's not ideal but I think people often don't understand the challenges that come with offering customization. It's a service that requires additional resources, requires different workflows and is simply more expensive. Canyon offers a wide range of sizes, better than most, and I can udnerstand that they follow this streamlined take it or leave it approach - even if it might not fit everyone.
Yes, i absolutely get that it involves an additional cost. But from customer perspective, undoing hoses and rebleeding process plus the fact that you might be forced to swap the hoses if they come out to short. That is alot of work i would guess many would need to find a mechanic to do.
This also put another thing in perspective. If someone else work on the bike how does that affect warranty?

Some brands void warranty if you yourself work on the bike. Since Aeroad has been plagued with issues i would not assume the new Ultimate is a spot on problem build.

I also think that when you buy a bike and know what you need in terms of fitting, there should be no problem or hinder ordering a correct (assuming you know what you need) cockpit.
That's just not OK!

One piece cockpits are still not an ideal solution. The ramp angle of the bar section is to affected with HT angle.
On the other hand i see alot of bikers simply rolling bars to reach shifters at the hoods (this even with a two cockpit none integrated bike).
Or moving shifters and it all just give me headache. So yes, alot of riders doesn't seem to get basics.
Perhaps i should just stop here or i will for sure start ranting of more things.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Andrew69 wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:57 am
njleach wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:16 am
justonwo wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:17 am
But why not continue to stay ahead of the pack and move the product forward another quantum leap? It's hard to get excited about this new version of thr Ultimate. So little has changed.
The new Ultimate CFR is about the same weight of the old model, isn't it?

So with the new model you're getting:
- Slightly better stiffness to weight
- Integrated cabling, and
- ~10W saving at 45km/h

I wonder how much of the 10W saving is simply due to the internal cable routing?
I have read that cables are costing you 1w per 10cm of exposed cable perpendicular to the wind
Maybe you should try to find how more spokes in a front wheel affect aero to.
I've seen alot suggesting that cables are the least of issues when it comes to drag( aero loss).
Personally i would guess hidden cables has become more of an aesthetic thing.
In the long run it's more trouble than ideal. Oh, talking watts.
Just what shirt you wear, the fit of it and how you use the zipp up or not, material (shoulders etc) is more watts.
Shoes design, helmet, how you hold your hands on the bar, width of bar, how wind hit the rotor, not to mention water bottles... yada yada....
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

smartyiak
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:20 pm

by smartyiak

Since there's some Ultimates still in stock, is there any compelling reason to get this over that (for your average pedestrian rider)?

spartacus
Posts: 1049
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

thirdsun wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:25 am
wheelsONfire wrote:
Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:02 pm
Asked Canyon less than 4 weeks ago about changing the once piece bar/stem for a 10mm longer version.
Nope, you have to order one on the side and you know the rest.
I think that would be fine. Canyon simply doesn't do customization. The problem with the CP018 cockpit used in the Aeroad and the new Ultimate is that you can't even buy a replacement. It's simply not available.

I suspect that that is the customization Cycling Tips is speaking of: Bein able to order a different CP018 cockpit after purchase. Again, it's not ideal but I think people often don't understand the challenges that come with offering customization. It's a service that requires additional resources, requires different workflows and is simply more expensive. Canyon offers a wide range of sizes, better than most, and I can udnerstand that they follow this streamlined take it or leave it approach - even if it might not fit everyone.
This is such crap. Specialized makes and sells a bike that you can remove the stem from without disconnecting anything, it's not that freaking hard, I am floored that people are in here apologizing for canyon for not offering cockpits as if that's even a remotely acceptable thing.

eins4eins
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:49 am

by eins4eins

Obviously its very acceptable for the majority of people as they're selling loads of bikes without the option of changing the cockpit. For years.

carbocation
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:40 pm

by carbocation

thirdsun wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:25 am
wheelsONfire wrote:
Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:02 pm
Asked Canyon less than 4 weeks ago about changing the once piece bar/stem for a 10mm longer version.
Nope, you have to order one on the side and you know the rest.
I think that would be fine. Canyon simply doesn't do customization. The problem with the CP018 cockpit used in the Aeroad and the new Ultimate is that you can't even buy a replacement. It's simply not available.

I suspect that that is the customization Cycling Tips is speaking of: Bein able to order a different CP018 cockpit after purchase. Again, it's not ideal but I think people often don't understand the challenges that come with offering customization. It's a service that requires additional resources, requires different workflows and is simply more expensive. Canyon offers a wide range of sizes, better than most, and I can udnerstand that they follow this streamlined take it or leave it approach - even if it might not fit everyone.
I don't understand this. To properly fit a bike, you have to be able to adjust the contact points to the rider. Not being able to change the bars or stem to ANYTHING else removes that ability. I could understand this take if Canyon said "if you don't like what it comes with, just get a cockpit from somewhere else". As for "people don't understand the challenges that come with offering customization" - everyone does because this isn't the first time someone has made a bike in multiple sizes. It's a missing feature because everyone has done it for decades.

Why not just include the seat tube at a set height as part of the frame? That would save a lot of weight, just continue to make the bike more difficult to ride.

carbocation
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:40 pm

by carbocation

spartacus wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:45 pm
thirdsun wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:25 am
wheelsONfire wrote:
Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:02 pm
Asked Canyon less than 4 weeks ago about changing the once piece bar/stem for a 10mm longer version.
Nope, you have to order one on the side and you know the rest.
I think that would be fine. Canyon simply doesn't do customization. The problem with the CP018 cockpit used in the Aeroad and the new Ultimate is that you can't even buy a replacement. It's simply not available.

I suspect that that is the customization Cycling Tips is speaking of: Bein able to order a different CP018 cockpit after purchase. Again, it's not ideal but I think people often don't understand the challenges that come with offering customization. It's a service that requires additional resources, requires different workflows and is simply more expensive. Canyon offers a wide range of sizes, better than most, and I can udnerstand that they follow this streamlined take it or leave it approach - even if it might not fit everyone.
This is such crap. Specialized makes and sells a bike that you can remove the stem from without disconnecting anything, it's not that freaking hard, I am floored that people are in here apologizing for canyon for not offering cockpits as if that's even a remotely acceptable thing.
I couldn't agree more, the engineering has been done already. People are blowing this off like it was technically impossible or economically non-viable to have different cockpits and neither of those are true.

carbocation
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:40 pm

by carbocation

Andrew69 wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:57 am
njleach wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:16 am
justonwo wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:17 am
But why not continue to stay ahead of the pack and move the product forward another quantum leap? It's hard to get excited about this new version of thr Ultimate. So little has changed.
The new Ultimate CFR is about the same weight of the old model, isn't it?

So with the new model you're getting:
- Slightly better stiffness to weight
- Integrated cabling, and
- ~10W saving at 45km/h

I wonder how much of the 10W saving is simply due to the internal cable routing?
I have read that cables are costing you 1w per 10cm of exposed cable perpendicular to the wind
I want to say Portner said that one time? Obviously depends a lot on the angle of attack - even mostly parallel cables are still going to disrupt flow through the area. When you're designing bikes to be fast in laminar flow, putting a turbulence generator in front of the head tube is not helpful.

ParisCarbon
Posts: 1918
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

Why does Canyon insist on selling the framesets with SRAM/Durace shifter/db setup installed... At least give the end user a choice of what they want , or nothing... being a Campy guy, the first thing turfed is that stuff... and to resell isn't as easy as it seems...

ViperFFM
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:11 am
Location: Frankfurt am Main,DE

by ViperFFM

Canyon is still profiting off the very good price / quality ratio from a couple of years ago. No competitive rider is considering Canyon as a reasonable offer today due to lack of quality, fixed handlebar and overall siginficant price increase. Back in the days people bought Canyon because you couldnt go wrong in doing so; but this also meant that the people buying those things were recreational at best, dont giving a f*** about fit of the bike.
carbonLORD wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:23 am
I'm a CAT 3 Masters racer, not a dentist.

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Roel W
Posts: 943
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:39 am
Location: Belgium

by Roel W

carbocation wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:02 pm

I don't understand this. To properly fit a bike, you have to be able to adjust the contact points to the rider. Not being able to change the bars or stem to ANYTHING else removes that ability. I could understand this take if Canyon said "if you don't like what it comes with, just get a cockpit from somewhere else". As for "people don't understand the challenges that come with offering customization" - everyone does because this isn't the first time someone has made a bike in multiple sizes. It's a missing feature because everyone has done it for decades.
Rose Versand, the other big German internet brand also stopped offering customisation on their lates XLite models.
In the past, they offered a lot of customisation (wheels, stem, bar,...).

If the lack of customisation of the geometry (stem length,...) is the price of total integration on most modern bikes, I would say 'no, thanks' to integration.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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