Real world Classified powershift experiences

[TobinHatesYou]

Why even make assumptions?

Someone could just put one of these bikes on a dyno/wheel-on trainer and figure out the percentage losses at the wheel vs at the cranks/pedals.

[milanv]

It is compatible with Shimano Di2

BUT:
Both handlebar unit and shift button are needed for integration with Di2. The shift button itself will be removed, but its cable will be soldered onto the Di2 and connected with the handlebar unit. This process is not part of the standard package (and voids the warranty of the shifter).

(received this answer from Classified)

I know that it is compatible, but not directly and by easy connection. If I can't do it by myself, it's very very annoying...

[ooo]

sram makes electronic 3-speed igh+cassette disc hub - dd3 pulse
(-) it is wired
(-) qr, metallic dropouts recommended
(+/-) it uses 6-bolt
(+) it uses standard freehub body (10 speed cassettes, 11 speed wide range cassette 11-34 or 11 speed small range 12-34 casssette)

I think it is possible to implement wireless version of this
but it looks like it will be hard to redesign it from qr to axle

[Ritxis]

sram makes electronic 3-speed igh+cassette disc hub - dd3 pulse
(-) it is wired
(-) qr, metallic dropouts recommended
(+/-) it uses 6-bolt
(+) it uses standard freehub body (10 speed cassettes, 11 speed wide range cassette 11-34 or 11 speed small range 12-34 casssette)

I think it is possible to implement wireless version of this
but it looks like it will be hard to redesign it from qr to axle

Will Shimano be working on something similar or thinking of upgrading their hub systems with integrated speeds...they are not "newbies" at it

https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch ... 0230061862



https://ibb.co/k6X2DkD

[RDY]

sram makes electronic 3-speed igh+cassette disc hub - dd3 pulse
(-) it is wired
(-) qr, metallic dropouts recommended
(+/-) it uses 6-bolt
(+) it uses standard freehub body (10 speed cassettes, 11 speed wide range cassette 11-34 or 11 speed small range 12-34 casssette)

I think it is possible to implement wireless version of this
but it looks like it will be hard to redesign it from qr to axle

Made, not makes. They discontinued all hub gearing systems some years ago. Went at the same time as their e-bike interests. Possible it could get resurrected, as e-bike stuff was.

[chrisw91]

There are some comments on that video and a link from his webpage that imply that Hambini's guesstimate was conservative and the total loss is nearer 10% ie only 90% efficiency.

I've watched the video & didn't see a single credible point raised to be honest. Not sure how he can pass judgement when he readily admits he's never actually seen or held a unit. Don't get me wrong, it's not impossible that the suggested efficiency losses are indeed accurate but I'd probbaly wait until we see some actual data. I'm beyond bored of Hambini's so called "expert" analysis so wouldn't trust a word he says anymore. Shame as there's definitely scope for some independent testing within cycling.

On the other hand I think Classified themselves need to be a little bit more open and transparent with their own data. I'd like to see some hard numbers based on roller testing with multiple PMs in place. Anyone here running Classified fancy making themselves super popular?!

[StiffWeenies]

It is compatible with Shimano Di2

BUT:
Both handlebar unit and shift button are needed for integration with Di2. The shift button itself will be removed, but its cable will be soldered onto the Di2 and connected with the handlebar unit. This process is not part of the standard package (and voids the warranty of the shifter).

(received this answer from Classified)

IIRC this is limited to 11s Di2 and if my reading is correct, eliminates E-TUBE function entirely for the left brifter i.e. no page button, no EW-WU111, etc.

[RDY]

There are some comments on that video and a link from his webpage that imply that Hambini's guesstimate was conservative and the total loss is nearer 10% ie only 90% efficiency.

I've watched the video & didn't see a single credible point raised to be honest. Not sure how he can pass judgement when he readily admits he's never actually seen or held a unit. Don't get me wrong, it's not impossible that the suggested efficiency losses are indeed accurate but I'd probbaly wait until we see some actual data. I'm beyond bored of Hambini's so called "expert" analysis so wouldn't trust a word he says anymore. Shame as there's definitely scope for some independent testing within cycling.

On the other hand I think Classified themselves need to be a little bit more open and transparent with their own data. I'd like to see some hard numbers based on roller testing with multiple PMs in place. Anyone here running Classified fancy making themselves super popular?!

You don't consider the fact that Classified's only published efficiency data is at tiny watts and really fast cadence credible, that he highlighted? They clearly did that with a purpose as nobody is ever going to ride like that, and it's also a perfect use case (ultra low torque) for efficiency data. They didn't accidentally do it. If data was good in more realistic scenarios they'd have published that.

[pmprego]

There are some comments on that video and a link from his webpage that imply that Hambini's guesstimate was conservative and the total loss is nearer 10% ie only 90% efficiency.

I've watched the video & didn't see a single credible point raised to be honest. Not sure how he can pass judgement when he readily admits he's never actually seen or held a unit. Don't get me wrong, it's not impossible that the suggested efficiency losses are indeed accurate but I'd probbaly wait until we see some actual data. I'm beyond bored of Hambini's so called "expert" analysis so wouldn't trust a word he says anymore. Shame as there's definitely scope for some independent testing within cycling.

On the other hand I think Classified themselves need to be a little bit more open and transparent with their own data. I'd like to see some hard numbers based on roller testing with multiple PMs in place. Anyone here running Classified fancy making themselves super popular?!

It is easy.

The first assumption of the entire reasoning is that no one will be able to come up with a better idea than the person itself. Then all arguments make sense afterwards.

[raggedtrousers]

I'd be prepared to take a small (<5%) loss in the virtual small ring, if a) they made a cassette starting at 10 (so I could use AXS and keep the ratios), b) could somehow integrate the virtual FD shift into AXS levers, and c) the price was a bit lower. Tbh 2 of those 3 would probably swing it for me.

FWIW I emailed Classified about efficiency and they wouldn't offer any hard data; they essentially just rehashed their marketing claims.

[Matte86]

I agree with you.. instead of developing a MTB system they could have refined the existing one which I think is in need of an update
I like the idea and what they offer but This repeated refrain from being open on hard data and lingering over giving a set to trusted reviewers is clearly damaging them
The longer they wait and face it the more people keep questioning it

[wooger]

The fact they they claim 12 speed cassette compatibility with 3 incompatible spacings is a bit of a red flag for me anyway.

[Nickldn]

The fact they they claim 12 speed cassette compatibility with 3 incompatible spacings is a bit of a red flag for me anyway.

I don't buy their cassette works well with all 3 brands either.

I guess the Classified idea was conceived when the world was 11s and cassette spacing was the same for Shimano/SRAM/Campagnolo.

Right now making a 12s cassette for each system to maintain good compatibility is a nightmare. SRAM may demand a licence fee to make something that works with it's flat top chain.

All in all not a great time to be launching a new hub standard.

[wooger]

It does seem like a product designed to have been acquired by SRAM 12 months ago and integrated into AXS instead of the backyard solutions available. For Dura Ace pricing it's a lot to accept.

[Nickldn]

True, the Classified hub is ideal for the SRAM 1x group. Could work well with the Zipp wheel range too.

But even if SRAM bought Classified they still wouldn't be able to drop the troublesome FDs from their range (if they did they'd be slaughtered in the pre-built bike market) and the Classified hub would be a but a niche curiosity.