New garmin product 1040edge, 840, 540

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petal666
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by petal666

InSeyne wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:52 pm
I really don't understand all this talk about laggy units, surely it's obvious it will take a few moments to download maps etc. We seem to live in a society where everything has to be instantaneous! Get real.
Nothing is getting 'downloaded'. Maps are already on the device so it should not be laggy. For a GPS company, navigation on the Garmin Edge devices has always been woeful.

Nickldn
Posts: 1866
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by Nickldn

petal666 wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:34 pm
InSeyne wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:52 pm
I really don't understand all this talk about laggy units, surely it's obvious it will take a few moments to download maps etc. We seem to live in a society where everything has to be instantaneous! Get real.
Nothing is getting 'downloaded'. Maps are already on the device so it should not be laggy. For a GPS company, navigation on the Garmin Edge devices has always been woeful.
Look, Garmin Edge devices have always been built to maximise battery life at the expense of processing power, screen resolution and UI.

I have a 520 plus and find anything to do with navigation to be v e r y s l o w . It's useable, but very frustrating at times.

I understand the 530 generation is much improved in terms of responsiveness, but with Garmin's philosophy you're never gonna get the operating speed of an iPhone or Galaxy S23.
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pushpush
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by pushpush

jayjay wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:25 am
pushpush wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:30 am
Bigger concern is whether or not Garmin managed to fix the crazy amount of bugs that existed in the 1040. It was unbelievable. I gave up playing bug roulette with their beta releases and sent my 1040 back to Garmin.
What bugs?
My 1040 works without any problems.
Rather than rehash a ton of documentation here, check out the garmin forum. The first few months following release were a dumpster fire of bugs and problems. Once I sent mine back to Garmin I stopped closely tracking the problems but it was crazy how many problems I (and others) were having. Gradient lag, non stop sensor drops, false off-segment off-nav warning errors, battery not charging and falsely reporting charge level and then abruptly turning off mid-ride, and on and on.... I assume most of those were related to a new major software overhaul and likely have been addressed over the past 6months, but it left me a little gun shy about new garmin products.

I'm glad to hear that people are having good experiences!

jlok
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by jlok

I have gone through the extra pain by having a 1040 APAC unit right at the product release, which receives update later than the others by one month. If you have seen what DCR tested, the immediate route calculation was never realized. I suspect that he received a press demo unit with special firmware.
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usr
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by usr

Nickldn wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:07 pm
I understand the 530 generation is much improved in terms of responsiveness, but with Garmin's philosophy you're never gonna get the operating speed of an iPhone or Galaxy S23.
And yet the speed you perceive in navigating on those iPhones and Samsungs is usually not the speed of the device but the speed of the enormous cloud resources in the background, that are directly or indirectly funded by the ad empires involved. Even when you drop into airplane mode, must of what still feels speedy is because so much data has been generously "pre-cooked" server side for quick consumption, thanks to the direct uplink unimpeded by bluetooth. So you are absolutely right, you will never see that speed on a Garmin. Even if they sold re-badged iPhones with their software ported to Apple flavor of ARM.

Nenekochi
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by Nenekochi

Any info on the release date? Hope the new model will be slimmer and lighter ....

Nickldn
Posts: 1866
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by Nickldn

usr wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:01 am
Nickldn wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:07 pm
I understand the 530 generation is much improved in terms of responsiveness, but with Garmin's philosophy you're never gonna get the operating speed of an iPhone or Galaxy S23.
And yet the speed you perceive in navigating on those iPhones and Samsungs is usually not the speed of the device but the speed of the enormous cloud resources in the background, that are directly or indirectly funded by the ad empires involved. Even when you drop into airplane mode, must of what still feels speedy is because so much data has been generously "pre-cooked" server side for quick consumption, thanks to the direct uplink unimpeded by bluetooth. So you are absolutely right, you will never see that speed on a Garmin. Even if they sold re-badged iPhones with their software ported to Apple flavor of ARM.
My 10 year old TomTom car sat nav was much much quicker at calculating routes than my fairly recent 520 plus. Neither have access to cloud, but the TomTom was powered from the car, so building in decent amounts of processing power was possible.

My 520 plus can easily take 10 minutes to plot a 40 mile route, that is just annoying. The TomTom could do a 400 mile route in under 30 seconds. I don't imagine Garmin maps are any more complex than TomTom's.
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milanv
Posts: 611
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by milanv

Nickldn wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:49 am
usr wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:01 am
Nickldn wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:07 pm
I understand the 530 generation is much improved in terms of responsiveness, but with Garmin's philosophy you're never gonna get the operating speed of an iPhone or Galaxy S23.
And yet the speed you perceive in navigating on those iPhones and Samsungs is usually not the speed of the device but the speed of the enormous cloud resources in the background, that are directly or indirectly funded by the ad empires involved. Even when you drop into airplane mode, must of what still feels speedy is because so much data has been generously "pre-cooked" server side for quick consumption, thanks to the direct uplink unimpeded by bluetooth. So you are absolutely right, you will never see that speed on a Garmin. Even if they sold re-badged iPhones with their software ported to Apple flavor of ARM.
My 10 year old TomTom car sat nav was much much quicker at calculating routes than my fairly recent 520 plus. Neither have access to cloud, but the TomTom was powered from the car, so building in decent amounts of processing power was possible.

My 520 plus can easily take 10 minutes to plot a 40 mile route, that is just annoying. The TomTom could do a 400 mile route in under 30 seconds. I don't imagine Garmin maps are any more complex than TomTom's.
You have to consider that 520 Plus is 3 generation out of date Garmin. Newer generations are 530 + 830 / 1030 Plus / 1040. I have owned/own all and have to say, 1040 is another galaxy from 830 and many miles ahead of 1030 Plus. Edge 520 Plus was fine, but it's a history, good for recording data, slower in navigation, small screen with small figures, not ideal.

If new Edge 540 + 840 have the same HW, it will be a great piece for everyone, who wants a small device with superb performance.
Last edited by milanv on Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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nickf
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by nickf

InSeyne wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:52 pm
I really don't understand all this talk about laggy units, surely it's obvious it will take a few moments to download maps etc. We seem to live in a society where everything has to be instantaneous! Get real.
I am still using an edge 1000 which still operates perfectly, battery life is circa 8 hours which although could be better is ok for my rides mostly 4-6 hours. I have considered an upgrade to a 1030 plus (decided not to until the current unit becomes problematic) but not prepared to pay for the 1040 at the moment.
Yesterday I was already up and over the climb and descending, the Garmin still displaying 11% gradient. I understand the lag and honestly doesn't really bother me. It does everything else so well except keeping up with gradient. That's my ONLY wiggle with the unit. Everything else is fantastic. The built in aluminum rear mount is a game changer, no more broken tabs.

usr
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by usr

Nickldn wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:49 am
My 520 plus can easily take 10 minutes to plot a 40 mile route, that is just annoying. The TomTom could do a 400 mile route in under 30 seconds. I don't imagine Garmin maps are any more complex than TomTom's.
But they are, from a routing algorithm perspective: car routing is very hierarchical for longer distances, there are simple but super effective algorithms that basically transfer the best guess method of "simply go to the nearest limited access road, then follow the signs to whatever is the regional capital near where you want to go and then you're almost there" into the computer. Things like pre-calculated distance tables between major highway exits and so on. Once on the highway network, the effective graph is super sparse, with dozens of kilometers between exits. Routing for bicycles on the other hand *never* gets logical shortcuts like that, it has to consider even the tiniest path along the way and there happen to be quite a lot of them.

mag
Posts: 616
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by mag

nickf wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:35 pm
Yesterday I was already up and over the climb and descending, the Garmin still displaying 11% gradient. I understand the lag and honestly doesn't really bother me. It does everything else so well except keeping up with gradient. That's my ONLY wiggle with the unit. Everything else is fantastic. The built in aluminum rear mount is a game changer, no more broken tabs.
If you mean just the Gradient data field, you can try some of the alternatives provided by the following Connect IQ apps:
Altimetric Gradient https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/2be4 ... 837353b040
Sensible Grade https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/dab1 ... 26a760e2ac
Gradient https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/83c5 ... 7c79477762
These make use of the barometric altimeter instead of the GPS data. Some of them also have configurable data smoothing interval which lets you to control the lag vs displayed data fluctuation.
Last edited by mag on Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

jlok
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

mag, Garmin's datafield is already based on barometer and the lag is a well-known issue. Go figure in Garmin Forum https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitnes ... ent-1290=5
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mag
Posts: 616
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by mag

Well, then they at least improved that, because older models rely on the GPS data for that data field which is even worse.

Still, some of those apps (Sensible Grade for example) have configurable smoothing interval that can be then set to a very low value (1 or 3 seconds) which results in much better behavior than the Garmin's gradient data field.

jlok
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

mag wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:37 am
Well, then they at least improved that, because older models rely on the GPS data for that data field which is even worse.

Still, some of those apps (Sensible Grade for example) have configurable smoothing interval that can be then set to a very low value (1 or 3 seconds) which results in much better behavior than the Garmin's gradient data field.
Yes, so it's Garmin's fault.

And you're probably talking about a few generations earlier like 810 or 510... that "improved" simply doesn't justify the flagship status of the 1040 and we the earliest adoptors aka pay-to-be-beta-testers won't accept such "explanation".
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Kayrehn
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by Kayrehn

I recently got the igsport 630, half the price of my 530, larger screen, super fast connection to GPS signal, all the data fields can be set on their app and it gets reflected in the unit instantly. I haven't tried to use map courses yet though. Waited so long for the 540 because the buttons all disintegrated years back and I'm irritated that it takes more than a kilometer for it to connect to GPS when I start my ride. Using this computer made me realise how primitive the 530 is, and I've no idea why people will defend all the various flaws of the Garmin when it's clearly inferior. If you argue that it's an unfair comparison because the igsport 630 is newer while the 530 is pretty old, then the fault is on Garmin for not releasing the 540 earlier. In retrospect I'm glad they didn't, because I found something better at a much better value.

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