I don't have the numbers in front of me obivously, but I'm willing to bet the demand on the OEM market is much higher for a 50/34 on 105, so why not pump out more there. It certainly fits the "more entry level" narrative better. Same reason you can only get 54/40 on DuraAce.CyclingGiraffe wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:09 pmThat delay is astonishing; I know that there are issues with suppliers, etc., but certainly it cannot be that much different to machine a 52 tooth chainring vs. a 50 tooth chainring. Is this a mistake?
105 2x12 - R7170 (R7150) / R7120 (R7100) - di2 / mechanical (MY2024)
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This.ricerocket wrote:I don't have the numbers in front of me obivously, but I'm willing to bet the demand on the OEM market is much higher for a 50/34 on 105, so why not pump out more there. It certainly fits the "more entry level" narrative better. Same reason you can only get 54/40 on DuraAce.CyclingGiraffe wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:09 pmThat delay is astonishing; I know that there are issues with suppliers, etc., but certainly it cannot be that much different to machine a 52 tooth chainring vs. a 50 tooth chainring. Is this a mistake?
52/36 is more common on Ultegra & Chorus level builds and above. 53/39 on 105 has been a special order item for a good decade for us, as it has on Ultegra for a few years and Dura Ace since 7900 days. Even then we had to discount them heavily.
The 11-36 cassette option is not the primary cassette cited in the launch docs and may have a crossover with GRX, so Shimano don’t feel it has to be available immediately.
The other thing to consider is that the ETAs noted may be for AM product because the first drops are OEM.
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never mind
"MY2024" implies there might be availability in the second half of 2023, to OEMs at least; pre-COVID, Giant bikes for the next model year became available between July and September here in Oz. In the current climate one can expect delays, and IMHO it wouldn't be surprising if OEM availability (i.e., on bikes for sale) wasn't until some time in 2024. The 11-36 cassettes will probably be similar - OEMs late 2022, aftermarket 2023 sometime (maybe).
Realistically, Shimano has had difficulty meeting demand for several years, with widespread availability of R9100 and R8000 only in 2019. Given increased demand and the numerous current supply chain problems I imagine the situation with new products (and spares for everything) will get worse, not better, and backorders and long waits will be the norm for quite some time. Shimano have announced relatively little new product since 2019 - ditto for others.
Realistically, Shimano has had difficulty meeting demand for several years, with widespread availability of R9100 and R8000 only in 2019. Given increased demand and the numerous current supply chain problems I imagine the situation with new products (and spares for everything) will get worse, not better, and backorders and long waits will be the norm for quite some time. Shimano have announced relatively little new product since 2019 - ditto for others.
Last edited by satanas on Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
It has a top limit screw, just like FD-R8050.
It also sounds a lot like FD-R8050, but judge for yourself: https://www.instagram.com/stories/bette ... 349758953/
(or one of the last ones here, if the link above expired: https://www.instagram.com/stories/highl ... 487359715/ )
It also sounds a lot like FD-R8050, but judge for yourself: https://www.instagram.com/stories/bette ... 349758953/
(or one of the last ones here, if the link above expired: https://www.instagram.com/stories/highl ... 487359715/ )
Hmm. Might help circumvent some of the new Di2 FD shifting SNAFU. The 8050 works a hell of a lot better than the 9250 ...TerryDi2C wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:53 pmIt has a top limit screw, just like FD-R8050.
It also sounds a lot like FD-R8050, but judge for yourself: https://www.instagram.com/stories/bette ... 349758953/
(or one of the last ones here, if the link above expired: https://www.instagram.com/stories/highl ... 487359715/ )
What snafu? Genuinely curious, as my 9250 FD isn't working that great with a 9100 crankset. I have to dial the high limit past spec (about 2 mm between cage and chain instead of 1-1.5) to get it to shift reasonably consistently. I also find that the cage has a lot of slop in the pivots. I asked my shop to check other 12s FDs and the slop is present in all of them, even unridden display models.
Should have said 8050 works a hell of a lot better than 9250 / 8150 FD. My FD is 8150, but AFAIK it's functionally identical to the 9250. SNAFU being all the shifting issues at the front (and at the rear - though I believe that's all due to cassette design / poor tolerances), and my suspicion that oval rings will never work acceptably except maybe with 105 Di2 (which apparently is the old 8050 FD).harblhat wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:49 amWhat snafu? Genuinely curious, as my 9250 FD isn't working that great with a 9100 crankset. I have to dial the high limit past spec (about 2 mm between cage and chain instead of 1-1.5) to get it to shift reasonably consistently. I also find that the cage has a lot of slop in the pivots. I asked my shop to check other 12s FDs and the slop is present in all of them, even unridden display models.
I think the slop or play you describe is a general 'feature' of all of them. Mine is exactly like you describe. So was the other 8150 I've seen. Haven't seen a 9250 up close. I posted about my experience with new Di2 in the main thread. How are you managing to get it further out (past the limit)?
It looks like 12s is certainly less forgiving on shifting especially the front than 11s. I guess it's the narrowed chain. This seems to be the case for Campy and Shimano. SRAM 11s etap front shifting was already questionable, not sure if it could have got any less reliable with 12s AXS for the product to be viable.
Expect even less forgivable front shifting with 13s/14s, it these could be 1x only.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
I've only used the XTR chain on 11s. It's great. Loads of people (including AFAIK most of the pro teams) used it exclusively for ages. It's not the chain. It's the FD having very limited adjustabilty and there being all sorts of issues with the cassette and its acroutements. Di2 12s front shifting / FD issues and limitations are way worse than SRAM's problems ever were, IMO.Nickldn wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:43 pmIt looks like 12s is certainly less forgiving on shifting especially the front than 11s. I guess it's the narrowed chain. This seems to be the case for Campy and Shimano. SRAM 11s etap front shifting was already questionable, not sure if it could have got any less reliable with 12s AXS for the product to be viable.
Expect even less forgivable front shifting with 13s/14s, it these could be 1x only.
I'm amazed to hear that. Had my fair share of FD issues with 11s etap FD, but works well for me now.
Shimano should do better, their 11s FD's are perfection, even 105.
Campy 12s FD is very sensitive limit screw adjustment and cable tension. One advantage of electronic is that once set up it usually keeps working and cable tension does not come into play.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
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