OSPW For Shimano 12sp

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Yoln
Posts: 988
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:26 pm

by Yoln

That's where I don't agree with you guys. I'm also obsessed with speed, hot-wax my chain, keep my drivetrain sparkling clean, sometimes rides corsa-speed on regular rides just for the love if it's marginal gains, put way too expensive grease on all my bearings, etc...

But after reading about Ineos choice to ditch OSPW, most of the triathletes doing the same on any recent built, and reading recent studies about OSPW, the consensus is that they provide a friction watts gain within the margin of error. And a aero watts loss, not within the margin of error.

So feel free to put them on if it's a piece of jewelry for you, that's all good. But don't come here and convince people that they'll make their bike faster. It's a marketing lie. Net net, taking into account aero drag, they'll make your bike slower.
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warthog101
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101


Yoln wrote:
So feel free to put them on if it's a piece of jewelry for you, that's all good. But don't come here and convince people that they'll make their bike faster. It's a marketing lie. Net net, taking into account aero drag, they'll make your bike slower.
ImageImage

ricerocket
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:38 am

by ricerocket

You guys must have missed the CeramicSpeed Aero OSPW.

Image

warthog101
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

I must get one.
That won't be embarassing at all.

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2504
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

Yoln wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 12:41 pm
That's where I don't agree with you guys. I'm also obsessed with speed, hot-wax my chain, keep my drivetrain sparkling clean, sometimes rides corsa-speed on regular rides just for the love if it's marginal gains, put way too expensive grease on all my bearings, etc...

But after reading about Ineos choice to ditch OSPW, most of the triathletes doing the same on any recent built, and reading recent studies about OSPW, the consensus is that they provide a friction watts gain within the margin of error. And a aero watts loss, not within the margin of error.

So feel free to put them on if it's a piece of jewelry for you, that's all good. But don't come here and convince people that they'll make their bike faster. It's a marketing lie. Net net, taking into account aero drag, they'll make your bike slower.
If you have any data to substantiate the claims that:
A. The efficiency gain in drive train efficiency is a fraction of a watt
B. The added aerodynamic drag of an OSPW is several watts
... I'd be very interested in seeing this. Although I highly doubt it exists.
Friction facts (no owned by Cermaic speed, so potentially biased now), ZFC and Josh Portner (Silca) have addressed independently of each other, that a good OSPW yields a single digits wattage improvement at 250W (usually quoted as 2-4 Watts).
That factors are the larger jockey wheels that lead to lower chain articulation, the lower friction bearings (against the Hambini notion of Steel great, ceramic bad), and the low tention of the cage (a very great feature for TTing).

Regarding aerodynamics: this claim operates on the basis of OSPW having a larger surface area than the standard derailleur cages, which, as I pointed out earlier in this thread, is NOT the case in case of 9200 Dura Ace!
So how exactly is the higher drag generated?

Even if it had a higher frontal area, EVERY world tour team makes this trade off when choosing very large chainrings for time trialing, for better chain lining (this is a super marginal gain as well) and lower chain articulation. The fast fitness tips video on YouTube just guesses numbers and uses a particular large cage to substantiate his claims.

As pointed out earlier, the added weight is a joke. The longer chain and larger cage add around 20g (CeramicSpeed to Shimano 9200). That's 20g in a (best case) 70'000g system. Even when only riding Zoncolan, that is a best case gain of 0.025%. That's 0.085 Watts at 350W or 0.9 seconds on an hour long climb at 12% average gradient.

I stand by this being a marginal gain, very marginal, but a gain!

Josh Portner's take on why World tour teams don't use OSPW on a recent podcast was "sponsorship deals". IPT is sponsored by CS, so they use it, other teams are not sponsored by CS, and they use Stock from the Group maker.
Group makers are not super happy with teams fiddling around with their gear on the basis of their components being slower. The gain in that isn't huge, so teams are fine with not using it.
I think "pro teams don't use it" is not the be all Argument if a component is good or not.
Ganna rides his TTs on Continental GP5000s TR tires, which are not the fastest tire. There are several watts gain by going Corsa Speed, Michelin TT or even Veloflex Record.
Does that mean the GP5000s TR is the fastest tire?
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

Mirco
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:09 pm

by Mirco

Got the Ceramicspeed OSPW blue for Sram Red/Force AXS yesterday. Mounted on Force AXS wide 1x setup yesterday and did a first 85km ride today. Works and looks awesome.

Vincentsmoox
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:33 am

by Vincentsmoox

Mirco wrote:Got the Ceramicspeed OSPW blue for Sram Red/Force AXS yesterday. Mounted on Force AXS wide 1x setup yesterday and did a first 85km ride today. Works and looks awesome.
No decreased shifting performance?


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bruno2000
Posts: 1291
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:11 pm

by bruno2000

I just bought one from Cycling Ceramic just for the looks.
I'm sure I will not feel any difference with the low-level of rider I am but like someone said it look slike a piece of jewelry to my bike.
https://cyclingceramic.com/

milanv
Posts: 620
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:03 am

by milanv

Vincentsmoox wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 1:18 pm
Mirco wrote:Got the Ceramicspeed OSPW blue for Sram Red/Force AXS yesterday. Mounted on Force AXS wide 1x setup yesterday and did a first 85km ride today. Works and looks awesome.
No decreased shifting performance?


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Why?

Mirco
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:09 pm

by Mirco

Vincentsmoox wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 1:18 pm
Mirco wrote:Got the Ceramicspeed OSPW blue for Sram Red/Force AXS yesterday. Mounted on Force AXS wide 1x setup yesterday and did a first 85km ride today. Works and looks awesome.
No decreased shifting performance?


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No

jas0nt
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:08 am

by jas0nt

ryanw wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 11:12 am
400w FTP / 82kg / 4.88wkg (pre-baby) :lol:
Can you keep telling us how awesome you are?

User avatar
ryanw
in the industry
Posts: 2291
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:52 pm
Location: London

by ryanw

Were*.

Happy to discuss my world records in weightlifting too.
SL8 S-Works Project Black - 6.29kg
IG: RhinosWorkshop

scottydonald
Posts: 260
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:06 pm
Location: Scotland now.

by scottydonald

ryanw wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 3:20 pm
Were*.

Happy to discuss my world records in weightlifting too.
and what are they?

znerken
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2024 7:00 pm

by znerken

One thing people don't seem to mention often with CS OSPW is that the open bearings require regular maintenance. I have over a couple of months tested both the original and the new Alpha RS with closed bearings. Yes, they look good, but even after just one ride on dry perfect tarmac and the bearings become scratchy. If you are a perfectionist like me who often take off the chain to rewax, it becomes quite sad to spin the OSPW cogs. I don't know about you, but taking them apart all the time to flush the bearings seems dumb. I guess you can just ignore it, but I can't seem to remember this being an issue with stock dura ace cages? The reason it happens on OSPW bearings is because tiny sand particles get inside. Here is a good video illustrating it: https://www.reddit.com/r/bikewrench/com ... Le74CEoNvF

After one ride there is a certain degree of this

by Weenie


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Nickldn
Posts: 2016
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

znerken wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2024 9:42 pm
One thing people don't seem to mention often with CS OSPW is that the open bearings require regular maintenance. I have over a couple of months tested both the original and the new Alpha RS with closed bearings. Yes, they look good, but even after just one ride on dry perfect tarmac and the bearings become scratchy. If you are a perfectionist like me who often take off the chain to rewax, it becomes quite sad to spin the OSPW cogs. I don't know about you, but taking them apart all the time to flush the bearings seems dumb. I guess you can just ignore it, but I can't seem to remember this being an issue with stock dura ace cages? The reason it happens on OSPW bearings is because tiny sand particles get inside. Here is a good video illustrating it: https://www.reddit.com/r/bikewrench/com ... Le74CEoNvF

After one ride there is a certain degree of this
Yes, this is the main reason I have resisted buying the CS OSPW. I can't understand why it's so difficult to come up with bearings that would need cleaning/re-greasing every 1,000 miles. EPIC FAIL IN MY BOOK.

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