Trek Domane 2023

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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12455
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

apr46 wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:32 am
I think the Domane RSL is one of the most interesting race bikes to come out in the last few years because its geometry is so different.

I see it as clearly designed to help smaller riders win Paris Roubaix (which it already did with last year with the women's race) and think its the first race bike designed for wider tires and really narrow bars. I think its ground breaking and a better go fast bike for a lot of us.

Of course, I designed my own bike and had it built before this bike was released--but wouldnt have bothered if I knew what Trek was up to.

You might be interested to know the Domane RSL of 3 generations of ago already had this geometry (except it was even longer.)

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bike ... d/p/17144/

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Karvalo
Posts: 3441
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:20 am
apr46 wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:41 am
I think you have it backwards. Moving from the 45mm offset to 43mm increases your trail.
I am not super up on this issue, so I'd be happy to be educated further, but I thought it worked like this (not to scale of course):
Image
No, you are completely and utterly backwards. The line of the steering axis contacts the ground in front of the contact patch, not behind it. More offset means less trail, less offset means more trail.

You really should never give advice about bike handling ever.

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 3261
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

Karvalo wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:27 am
Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:20 am
apr46 wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:41 am
I think you have it backwards. Moving from the 45mm offset to 43mm increases your trail.
I am not super up on this issue, so I'd be happy to be educated further, but I thought it worked like this (not to scale of course):
Image
No, you are completely and utterly backwards. The line of the steering axis contacts the ground in front of the contact patch, not behind it. More offset means less trail, less offset means more trail.

You really should never give advice about bike handling ever.
That diagram might depict things more correctly if the HTA was anything resembling what is actually found on road bikes. The HTA angle in that image looks to be about 85 deg! If it was more like 72 deg, the steering axis would fall in front of the vertical line coming down from the wheel center.

apr46
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

by apr46

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:38 am
apr46 wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:32 am
I think the Domane RSL is one of the most interesting race bikes to come out in the last few years because its geometry is so different.

I see it as clearly designed to help smaller riders win Paris Roubaix (which it already did with last year with the women's race) and think its the first race bike designed for wider tires and really narrow bars. I think its ground breaking and a better go fast bike for a lot of us.

Of course, I designed my own bike and had it built before this bike was released--but wouldnt have bothered if I knew what Trek was up to.

You might be interested to know the Domane RSL of 3 generations of ago already had this geometry (except it was even longer.)

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bike ... d/p/17144/
Yeah, I come across as a bit of an ass don't I? I wasnt laying claim to invention, just that I put in effort I would rather not have if I didnt need to.

I couldnt ride that Domane because I would need to be on a 52, but I also wasnt aware of it.

Karvalo
Posts: 3441
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

apr46 wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:04 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:38 am
apr46 wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:32 am
I think the Domane RSL is one of the most interesting race bikes to come out in the last few years because its geometry is so different.

I see it as clearly designed to help smaller riders win Paris Roubaix (which it already did with last year with the women's race) and think its the first race bike designed for wider tires and really narrow bars. I think its ground breaking and a better go fast bike for a lot of us.

Of course, I designed my own bike and had it built before this bike was released--but wouldnt have bothered if I knew what Trek was up to.

You might be interested to know the Domane RSL of 3 generations of ago already had this geometry (except it was even longer.)

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bike ... d/p/17144/
Yeah, I come across as a bit of an ass don't I? I wasnt laying claim to invention, just that I put in effort I would rather not have if I didnt need to.

I couldnt ride that Domane because I would need to be on a 52, but I also wasnt aware of it.
The Domane Koppenberg before that was similarly ultra aggressive as well, wasn't it?

Lina
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

apr46 wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:04 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:38 am
apr46 wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:32 am
I think the Domane RSL is one of the most interesting race bikes to come out in the last few years because its geometry is so different.

I see it as clearly designed to help smaller riders win Paris Roubaix (which it already did with last year with the women's race) and think its the first race bike designed for wider tires and really narrow bars. I think its ground breaking and a better go fast bike for a lot of us.

Of course, I designed my own bike and had it built before this bike was released--but wouldnt have bothered if I knew what Trek was up to.

You might be interested to know the Domane RSL of 3 generations of ago already had this geometry (except it was even longer.)

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bike ... d/p/17144/
Yeah, I come across as a bit of an ass don't I? I wasnt laying claim to invention, just that I put in effort I would rather not have if I didnt need to.

I couldnt ride that Domane because I would need to be on a 52, but I also wasnt aware of it.
You not being aware of it sounds more like a you issue though. And like Karvalo said there was the Koppenberg even before that.

spdntrxi
Posts: 5789
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

I kinda remember small sizes not available though in the older gens (not sure)... like 54 or 56 was the smallest. So the new RSL in small sizes is a blessing.
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wannabefast
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:50 pm

by wannabefast

spdntrxi wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:32 pm
I kinda remember small sizes not available though in the older gens (not sure)... like 54 or 56 was the smallest. So the new RSL in small sizes is a blessing.
Yep, you remembered correctly, the smallest the special pro only geo Domane were available in was 54, because they only made them in the Pro's sizes, and they didn't have a women's team nor women's Paris Roubaix. I remember very clearly because I really wanted one at the time, but 54 is too big for me, needed a 52.

Now they are available, I am pretty tempted, especially after seeing Tobin's bike, but that price tho....

apr46
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

by apr46

Lina wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:08 pm
apr46 wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:04 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:38 am
apr46 wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:32 am
I think the Domane RSL is one of the most interesting race bikes to come out in the last few years because its geometry is so different.

I see it as clearly designed to help smaller riders win Paris Roubaix (which it already did with last year with the women's race) and think its the first race bike designed for wider tires and really narrow bars. I think its ground breaking and a better go fast bike for a lot of us.

Of course, I designed my own bike and had it built before this bike was released--but wouldnt have bothered if I knew what Trek was up to.

You might be interested to know the Domane RSL of 3 generations of ago already had this geometry (except it was even longer.)

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bike ... d/p/17144/
Yeah, I come across as a bit of an ass don't I? I wasnt laying claim to invention, just that I put in effort I would rather not have if I didnt need to.

I couldnt ride that Domane because I would need to be on a 52, but I also wasnt aware of it.
You not being aware of it sounds more like a you issue though. And like Karvalo said there was the Koppenberg even before that.
Clearly already admited my lack of awareness, though its not totally honest. I vaguely remember the bike existing, i think it was a homolgation for Cancellera?

The Koppenburg is a totally different geometry and IMO a different concept. Its a steep HTA with a low offset to acheive a pretty standard trail. Its more similar to a lower version of the current Madone than it is to either Domane RSL.

Back to the Domane(s), looking at the geos: the smallest size 54 of the Domane RSL 10 is also more like a 56 on the current Gen 4 RSL in every way except for stack. It wasnt even close to being translated into something that could be ridden by a smaller rider where arguably the differences between the Domane RSL and the Madone would be of greater consequence to the rider. So, I still do think its a big deal for those of us that are smaller.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12455
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

The Koppenberg only went down to 56cm IIRC. Sort of like the S-Works Roubaix Team Edition, it was made in only a few specific sizes for pros of certain stature.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12455
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Lmao so I forgot to account for the effective grip reach change by turning the levers inward. I might seek out a 150mm stem. I don’t think this would be a problem with narrower bars and a more typical lever angle, just the cross-eyed levers = shorter reach.

Initial impressions…

I had problems riding no-handed on the Madone… no such issues with the Domane. Not sure if it’s the cabling or geometry or what. The bike seems stiff as hell at the BB and at the front, but that might be in large part due to the SL Sprint stem.

Brand new bikes/drivetrains are so freaking quiet.
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velov
Posts: 456
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:09 am

by velov

^ that pic needs a *Gore* warning :shock:

Attermann
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Location: Denmark

by Attermann

I think I threw up in my mouth.

RDY
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:49 pm
Lmao so I forgot to account for the effective grip reach change by turning the levers inward. I might seek out a 150mm stem. I don’t think this would be a problem with narrower bars and a more typical lever angle, just the cross-eyed levers = shorter reach.

Initial impressions…

I had problems riding no-handed on the Madone… no such issues with the Domane. Not sure if it’s the cabling or geometry or what. The bike seems stiff as hell at the BB and at the front, but that might be in large part due to the SL Sprint stem.

Brand new bikes/drivetrains are so freaking quiet.
What's the purpose of aggressively swept back bars like this? Presumably they keep a similar effective reach to normal bars? Normally backseep is used on bikes with a long front center to bring the grips closer to the reach starved or wanting-more-comfort rider.

by Weenie


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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12455
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

RDY wrote:
Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:37 am

What's the purpose of aggressively swept back bars like this? Presumably they keep a similar effective reach to normal bars? Normally backseep is used on bikes with a long front center to bring the grips closer to the reach starved or wanting-more-comfort rider.

The grips, ramps, drops are in the "expected" position relative to the stem clamping area. The tops are slanted up and forward toward the middle to allow a more neutral wrist position, and it only makes sense to increase the reach on the tops toward the middle as you bring your hands in from the hoods/grips. Think of a middle hand position as puppy paws except you're actually gripping the bars.

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