Silca Ultimate Tubeless Sealant

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whataboutEee
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:55 pm

by whataboutEee

BigBoyND wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:53 am
Did your friend install the red tape or was that from the factory? Was it in two layers?

Failure at the spokes is usually due to insufficient layering or overpressure.
It's true that failure at a spoke hole can be caused by many things, but in all the tubeless wheels I've run, I only had it happen one time and that was with factory installed tape and silca sealant.

MikeD
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

TobinHatesYou wrote:ENVE advises to use one layer of their red tape. The tape was pretty new. Spoke hole failures with Silca Ultimate are a known issue.
That doesn't look like the tape was damaged by the sealant. The rest of the tape looks good. One layer and a sharp edge at the spoke hole was most likely the cause. Plus, how good is that tape? There's all sorts of tape being used out there. They can't all be good. I've only used Stan's tape, and it hasn't failed me. It has what looks like fiberglass reinforcement in the tape, which would make the tape much stronger tensile strength wise than those tapes that are translucent/no fiber reinforcement.

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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12457
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

MikeD wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:41 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:ENVE advises to use one layer of their red tape. The tape was pretty new. Spoke hole failures with Silca Ultimate are a known issue.
That doesn't look like the tape was damaged by the sealant. The rest of the tape looks good. One layer and a sharp edge at the spoke hole was most likely the cause. Plus, how good is that tape? There's all sorts of tape being used out there. They can't all be good. I've only used Stan's tape, and it hasn't failed me. It has what looks like fiberglass reinforcement in the tape, which would make the tape much stronger tensile strength wise than those tapes that are translucent/no fiber reinforcement.

I also said spoke hole failures are a known issue with that sealant. He’s not the only one who just started getting these failures with the sealant. He’s also not new to tubeless…his 5.6s are almost as old as mine…he’s had them about 5 years and never had a tape failure until trying Silca’s sealant.

Stan’s tape is Tesa 4289. The properties of all these tapes are available in datasheets and far exceed the needs of road tubeless inflation. The only tape I own which I wouldn’t use with just one layer is 3M 8991 (the clear blue tape.)

MikeD
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:11 pm
MikeD wrote:
Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:41 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:ENVE advises to use one layer of their red tape. The tape was pretty new. Spoke hole failures with Silca Ultimate are a known issue.
That doesn't look like the tape was damaged by the sealant. The rest of the tape looks good. One layer and a sharp edge at the spoke hole was most likely the cause. Plus, how good is that tape? There's all sorts of tape being used out there. They can't all be good. I've only used Stan's tape, and it hasn't failed me. It has what looks like fiberglass reinforcement in the tape, which would make the tape much stronger tensile strength wise than those tapes that are translucent/no fiber reinforcement.

I also said spoke hole failures are a known issue with that sealant. He’s not the only one who just started getting these failures with the sealant. He’s also not new to tubeless…his 5.6s are almost as old as mine…he’s had them about 5 years and never had a tape failure until trying Silca’s sealant.

Stan’s tape is Tesa 4289. The properties of all these tapes are available in datasheets and far exceed the needs of road tubeless inflation. The only tape I own which I wouldn’t use with just one layer is 3M 8991 (the clear blue tape.)
Was that rim with the red tape a rim brake rim? If so, could be a heat related failure of the plastic tape at the spoke hole. I went on the ENVE website, and there are no specs on their tape. I'm not buying "far exceed the needs of road tubeless inflation." How do you know this?

Probably no point in arguing this further as Silca sealant has been proven to eat certain types of rim tapes. I did read that Silca recommends a tape like Stan's (fiber reinforced polypropylene strapping tape, I think).

naavt
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:58 pm

by naavt

Silca is announcing a pre-sale on many of their products and I need a new bottle of sealant.

Some months ago I've read awful stuff from their sealant due to carbon particles not spreading out evenly.

Now I'm reading about spoke holes due to their sealant.

Is the majority getting away from this? Or is this a good sealant, even with its pitfalls?

blaugrana
Posts: 457
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:49 pm

by blaugrana

naavt wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:23 pm
Silca is announcing a pre-sale on many of their products and I need a new bottle of sealant.

Some months ago I've read awful stuff from their sealant due to carbon particles not spreading out evenly.

Now I'm reading about spoke holes due to their sealant.

Is the majority getting away from this? Or is this a good sealant, even with its pitfalls?
Some people have reported using the sealant without major issues (at least for a while). But there's not much of a point in risking it instead of going for one of the more established options, especially considering Silca is one of the most expensive sealants out there.

Maybe the idea of using carbon fibre to seal bigger holes can eventually end up working consistently, but I would at least wait until they release a revised formula that has been tested more thoroughly.

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

I think the biggest potential of Silca Ultimate is the idea to have a relatively long lasting and low temperature resistant sealant (à la Orange Endurance) with the carbon strings improving the sealing performance to a Orange Standard level.
That's on paper though. I really hope they'll get that sorted but I see the product as generally faulty.
It operates in the premise, that the liquid foams up, and thereby spreads the carbon fibers evenly to the entire thread. From my experience, that just clearly doesn't happen. None of the holes that I've had with SU have had carbon fibers stuck in them, but a single one, that was literally on the exact middle of the thread.

For the poor sealing capabilities, it just is too much of a hand full to live with.
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MikeD
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

Anyone else tried Milkit sealant? It checks a lot of boxes for me. I haven't had a flat yet but I just might be lucky. I can't yet vouch for its sealing ability vs Orange Seal regular.

bobones
Posts: 1271
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

I've bought Milkit sealant, but I am not convinced by it. It would not seal the walls of my Veloflex Corsa Evo tyres, which just kept deflating within a day. I only purchased it as I was avoiding using Orange Seal because it was reported to stain the tan walls on these tyres. After trying a few different sealants without success, I ended up just using Orange Seal and they have stayed up and haven't stained. I'm now just about out of Orange Seal, but I have still got loads of Milkit, Muc-Off, Oko and a little Silca stuff left, so I think I'll force myself to use them up over the winter, and then I'm promising myself to never buy anything other than OS in future!

BTW, I popped the tyres I had Silca in the other day to see what they were like inside. I last topped them up with replenisher 4 months ago, but I hadn't had any noticeable punctures and wasn't sure if they'd dried out. Turns out there was quite a lot of liquid still in the tyres but the carbon filaments had all bound together into a little ball so the liquid was entirely smooth. I haven't really been able to judge the effectiveness of the remaining liquid for puncture protection as I haven't been getting any over the summer, but I really hate the potential for mess with Silca because you cannot add it via the valve. My rear tyre was a very loose fit on this wheel and would not inflate with a track pump or booster, and the quantity and mess of liquid oozing from around the rim on failed inflation attempts has put me off this stuff for good.

It will be interesting to see how road tubeless fairs with my winter riding this year, as I don't think any of the sealants I've tried are particularly great in the cold and wet, but that's where Dynaplugs usually come to the rescue.

MikeD
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

I used porous Rene Herse tires with OS and it took a while to seal the sidewalls too. Lots of ugly orange dots on the sidewalls. I'm unconvinced that Milkit would be any better or worse in this regard. A good tubeless tire wouldn't have this issue either.


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bobones
Posts: 1271
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

I ran Corsa Speed TRs for a couple of summers and was getting punctures just about every week. The only sealant that really worked for me with these tyres at road pressures was Orange Seal, and I have seen nothing to suggest that anything else I have bought performs better.

naavt
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:58 pm

by naavt

bobones wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:25 pm
I ran Corsa Speed TRs for a couple of summers and was getting punctures just about every week. The only sealant that really worked for me with these tyres at road pressures was Orange Seal, and I have seen nothing to suggest that anything else I have bought performs better.
Was using Orange Seal with my Veloflex Corsas TLR with no luck whatsover. Made a drastic change and tried out VW car tire sealant. No turning back to bike sealants anymore!

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12457
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

naavt wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:25 pm
bobones wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:25 pm
I ran Corsa Speed TRs for a couple of summers and was getting punctures just about every week. The only sealant that really worked for me with these tyres at road pressures was Orange Seal, and I have seen nothing to suggest that anything else I have bought performs better.
Was using Orange Seal with my Veloflex Corsas TLR with no luck whatsover. Made a drastic change and tried out VW car tire sealant. No turning back to bike sealants anymore!

My suspicion is people aren’t adding as much Orange Seal to their tires as they think. When shaken Orange Seal gets very frothy. People end up injecting mostly air bubbles rather than actual sealant.

naavt
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:58 pm

by naavt

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:05 am
naavt wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:25 pm
bobones wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:25 pm
I ran Corsa Speed TRs for a couple of summers and was getting punctures just about every week. The only sealant that really worked for me with these tyres at road pressures was Orange Seal, and I have seen nothing to suggest that anything else I have bought performs better.
Was using Orange Seal with my Veloflex Corsas TLR with no luck whatsover. Made a drastic change and tried out VW car tire sealant. No turning back to bike sealants anymore!

My suspicion is people aren’t adding as much Orange Seal to their tires as they think. When shaken Orange Seal gets very frothy. People end up injecting mostly air bubbles rather than actual sealant.
Not the case here! Went to take the tire out and the tube I've installed to ride back home was all messy because of the sealant still inside the tire, and that happened 2 times in a row.

I've turned back to tubes for a while, not only because of the mess, but also because fitting a inner tube to ride back home is a PITA with TLR tires.

I've only decided to go and try TLR tires again after a friend's advise for using car tire sealant, which was - according to him - the only way to seal a big hole in a Conti 5000TL tire that didn't seal up with any other sealant.

MikeD
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

naavt wrote:
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:05 am
naavt wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:25 pm
bobones wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:25 pm
I ran Corsa Speed TRs for a couple of summers and was getting punctures just about every week. The only sealant that really worked for me with these tyres at road pressures was Orange Seal, and I have seen nothing to suggest that anything else I have bought performs better.
Was using Orange Seal with my Veloflex Corsas TLR with no luck whatsover. Made a drastic change and tried out VW car tire sealant. No turning back to bike sealants anymore!

My suspicion is people aren’t adding as much Orange Seal to their tires as they think. When shaken Orange Seal gets very frothy. People end up injecting mostly air bubbles rather than actual sealant.
Not the case here! Went to take the tire out and the tube I've installed to ride back home was all messy because of the sealant still inside the tire, and that happened 2 times in a row.

I've turned back to tubes for a while, not only because of the mess, but also because fitting a inner tube to ride back home is a PITA with TLR tires.

I've only decided to go and try TLR tires again after a friend's advise for using car tire sealant, which was - according to him - the only way to seal a big hole in a Conti 5000TL tire that didn't seal up with any other sealant.
Was it the endurance version? Doesn't work if it gets old or in the tire too long.

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