My Fred Whitton Journey...
Moderator: robbosmans
Good snaps, or frame grabs anyway. Just one more climb... but it's 25%.
cycling / nature / music
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Congrats to both of you guys for a terrific effort and result. Next year we can do a mini WW group for company and headwind mitigation! Very much looking forward to this based on the lovely photographs. As someone who grew up hiking in this region in my youth before moving to America, I'm very excited to do this ride.
Lots of bikes: currently riding Enve Melee, Krypton Pro, S Works Crux, S Works Epic Evo, SL7.
In build: SW SL8
In build: SW SL8
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As the opening poster in this thread, I thought I ought to contribute.
The Fred is a fantastic event! On Sunday evening I was saying "never again" but by Tuesday I was saying "What would I do differently next time?"
To answer that, the one thing I would do differently is specific training for the event. 80K rides in the Surrey Hills feel hard but they're no preparation for the Fred. My 48/32 and 11:34 gearing would probably have been about right if I'd been properly prepared physically. The Winspace SLC was a joy to ride and the combination of direct mount 105 rim brakes and light alloy rims was great, even down the horrible descent from Wrynose. The Veloflex Corsa Evo TL tyres stood up to the test perfectly. I did the event with a couple of mates - one of us managed to get up Hardknott without stepping off (not me!) although, in fairness, he's about 20 years younger. I'm probably going to volunteer to marshal for the 2023 event in order to get an entry for 2024. Of all the wisdom meted out in this thread, the following post by expatscot is the best - every word of it is true...
"On the steepest climbs, it's about survival.
Chuck it in the lowest gear, early on.
It's a balance between seated power (you'll potentially lift the front end if weight too far back) vs rear wheel slip if you're out of the saddle and too far over the front wheel. Good tyres help a bit.
Watch out for riders just ahead who come to a sudden standstill and leave you nowhere to go. Always try and have a bit of safety.
Watch out for toe overlap if weaving at slow speed across the road. That can get embarrasing.
Max efforts on the steepest sections, just trying to get the cranks turning at slower than walking speeds. Use any slightly flatter sections as temporary respite.
Speed up the hill is utterly irrelevant - the key is slow relentless forward motion.
You can try and take the widest part of the road round the hairpins. Along with all the other riders, and lots of people pushing.
If you put a foot down on a steep section, it's almost impossible to get going again. MOVE OUT OF THE WAY IMMEDIATELY then take a short breather and walk to the next gentler gradient.
If you get cramp on a ramp, there's nothing you can do about it.
I've done most of the route, albeit many years ago. The descents are really tricky, particularly Honister. You will pick up speed incredibly quickly, and there are a nasty mix of poor surfaces, tightening bends, walls and off camber sections. You'll also likely have loons shooting past on both sides of you."
The Fred is a fantastic event! On Sunday evening I was saying "never again" but by Tuesday I was saying "What would I do differently next time?"
To answer that, the one thing I would do differently is specific training for the event. 80K rides in the Surrey Hills feel hard but they're no preparation for the Fred. My 48/32 and 11:34 gearing would probably have been about right if I'd been properly prepared physically. The Winspace SLC was a joy to ride and the combination of direct mount 105 rim brakes and light alloy rims was great, even down the horrible descent from Wrynose. The Veloflex Corsa Evo TL tyres stood up to the test perfectly. I did the event with a couple of mates - one of us managed to get up Hardknott without stepping off (not me!) although, in fairness, he's about 20 years younger. I'm probably going to volunteer to marshal for the 2023 event in order to get an entry for 2024. Of all the wisdom meted out in this thread, the following post by expatscot is the best - every word of it is true...
"On the steepest climbs, it's about survival.
Chuck it in the lowest gear, early on.
It's a balance between seated power (you'll potentially lift the front end if weight too far back) vs rear wheel slip if you're out of the saddle and too far over the front wheel. Good tyres help a bit.
Watch out for riders just ahead who come to a sudden standstill and leave you nowhere to go. Always try and have a bit of safety.
Watch out for toe overlap if weaving at slow speed across the road. That can get embarrasing.
Max efforts on the steepest sections, just trying to get the cranks turning at slower than walking speeds. Use any slightly flatter sections as temporary respite.
Speed up the hill is utterly irrelevant - the key is slow relentless forward motion.
You can try and take the widest part of the road round the hairpins. Along with all the other riders, and lots of people pushing.
If you put a foot down on a steep section, it's almost impossible to get going again. MOVE OUT OF THE WAY IMMEDIATELY then take a short breather and walk to the next gentler gradient.
If you get cramp on a ramp, there's nothing you can do about it.
I've done most of the route, albeit many years ago. The descents are really tricky, particularly Honister. You will pick up speed incredibly quickly, and there are a nasty mix of poor surfaces, tightening bends, walls and off camber sections. You'll also likely have loons shooting past on both sides of you."
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Great job guys! I fancy myself as a climber but this looks positively intimidating. 30% is no joke.
Ridley Helium SLX - RIP https://weightweenies.starbike.com/for ... lit=ridley
Scott Foil - current viewtopic.php?f=10&t=173046&p=1813155#p1813155
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So I am two months out from the FW challenge. I was training along nicely until about January when I strained or tore a hip flexor on a long ski tour. Two months of rest later, a loss of base, and I am now revising my plan for gearing, so I was wondering if I could trouble all of you for some thoughts:
I am going to have to avoid straining that hip again which means a bigger cassette and maybe even smaller rings up front. My normal set up in 11 speed is 11-32 in the back and 50/34 in the front. I am about 78kg and live in the Rocky mountains of the US, so lots of steep climbs here and high altitude though this year we have had record snowfall = very little outdoor training until things melt which will be after the Fred. I have used this setup on the L'Etape du Tour many times and never had an issue with a strong time for 4000m + of climbing.
I am thinking to use a 12 speed shimano set up. Swap the 11-32 for an 11-34. The question is what to do in the front. If I want the most spin, I would pull the 46/30 off my gravel bike and use that or get a 48/32. My question is will I miss the 50 on the flat sections? A 48-11 should keep me close to 28 -30mph on flat sections at a decent cadence, so my instint is to go ahead and make the swap. I have no ego in this - I don't have the fitness to race the Fred Whitton as I had planned, but I would like to finish it and have enough strength to lift a pint at the end!
I am going to have to avoid straining that hip again which means a bigger cassette and maybe even smaller rings up front. My normal set up in 11 speed is 11-32 in the back and 50/34 in the front. I am about 78kg and live in the Rocky mountains of the US, so lots of steep climbs here and high altitude though this year we have had record snowfall = very little outdoor training until things melt which will be after the Fred. I have used this setup on the L'Etape du Tour many times and never had an issue with a strong time for 4000m + of climbing.
I am thinking to use a 12 speed shimano set up. Swap the 11-32 for an 11-34. The question is what to do in the front. If I want the most spin, I would pull the 46/30 off my gravel bike and use that or get a 48/32. My question is will I miss the 50 on the flat sections? A 48-11 should keep me close to 28 -30mph on flat sections at a decent cadence, so my instint is to go ahead and make the swap. I have no ego in this - I don't have the fitness to race the Fred Whitton as I had planned, but I would like to finish it and have enough strength to lift a pint at the end!
Lots of bikes: currently riding Enve Melee, Krypton Pro, S Works Crux, S Works Epic Evo, SL7.
In build: SW SL8
In build: SW SL8
There are a few fast sections where you'd want a big gear, but many of the descents are dangerous, and you'll be braking rather than pedaling, so perhaps a low top gear won't be too much of a problem. I used 46/33 with 10-36, which was perfect for me, and 46/10 was big enough for sure. A sub 1.0 low gear is definitely worth having when you hit the 20%+ stuff, so perhaps consider the 11-36 cassette with 50/34, 48/32 or even 46/30.
Here's a comparision of my gearing against 11-36 48/32 that you can mess about with.
You'll still be straining that hip what ever gearing you use, so be careful!
Here's a comparision of my gearing against 11-36 48/32 that you can mess about with.
You'll still be straining that hip what ever gearing you use, so be careful!
It really depends on how strong you are. Bare in mind I certainly haven't ridden anything in the Alps or Pyrenees that prepares for Hardnott at 90m. Stelvio is easy by comparison
I'm pretty strong up a hill, rode 2016 in just over 6.30. Going into it I'd thought to ride 50/34 11/30 but the 11/30 I had wouldn't go on to the Tune hub on the wheels I rode. How hard can it be..? 11/28 it is. Got around to the bottom of Hardnott and felt good, avg over 18mph was a surprise. The previous hills despite some 20% ramps were all pretty comfortable, spinning up the steep sections. Vividly remember hitting the bottom of Hardnott and seeing the 30% sign in one of the photos up the the thread. I did think again at that point, how hard can it be. Just after that sign it ramps up, steep but not that hard and you pop out onto the steady rise before the proper steep. You can see what lies ahead for a fair while. Crikey, it was was hard, physically the toughest thing I've ever done. I read a piece in a cycle mag that described clmbing this hill as trying to put your foot through floorboards with every pedal stroke. I concur! I did make it up, sheer will power. We set off at 6.30am and rode reasonably quickly so I guess we were fortunate not to have too much traffic on the hill. Only one of the other guys I went with managed to get up without walking and all were on bigger gears than a compact 28!
Exhausted over the top and very slow up Wrynose into the breeze, shorter but still very steep. Thing is you're not done, plenty to go at this point.
Were I to do it again I'd definitely be looking at 32 or even 34 on a compact. Something of that order. You get to a point where the gear gets too small so keeping the momentum might become a problem on a 36 or bigger, easier to drop off and put a foot down? Don't know. Still tough but I'd think most strong riders would get up on a 34. You likely want the 50 for the flatter sections
It's a great event, the organisers/marshalls are awesome. Follow the advice, if they're waving you to slow do it! The descents are treacherous (and fun) particularly in the wet/damp and the runout is generally a drystone wall. Kirkstone is fast but has off camber sections, one poor lad hit the wall, fortunately his crash saved me, speed I was going might have followed him but the marshalls were slowing us. Lesson learned!
It's a great day out and all of those I rode with enjoyed - none have been back! Will do it again one day. Best of luck
Edit btw I rode a 6 kg Cannondale, rim brakes on carbon wheels, pump the brakes on the steeps and it shouldn't be a problem. Tubeless saved me 10mins, I was told after that I was spraying sealant at one point.
I'm pretty strong up a hill, rode 2016 in just over 6.30. Going into it I'd thought to ride 50/34 11/30 but the 11/30 I had wouldn't go on to the Tune hub on the wheels I rode. How hard can it be..? 11/28 it is. Got around to the bottom of Hardnott and felt good, avg over 18mph was a surprise. The previous hills despite some 20% ramps were all pretty comfortable, spinning up the steep sections. Vividly remember hitting the bottom of Hardnott and seeing the 30% sign in one of the photos up the the thread. I did think again at that point, how hard can it be. Just after that sign it ramps up, steep but not that hard and you pop out onto the steady rise before the proper steep. You can see what lies ahead for a fair while. Crikey, it was was hard, physically the toughest thing I've ever done. I read a piece in a cycle mag that described clmbing this hill as trying to put your foot through floorboards with every pedal stroke. I concur! I did make it up, sheer will power. We set off at 6.30am and rode reasonably quickly so I guess we were fortunate not to have too much traffic on the hill. Only one of the other guys I went with managed to get up without walking and all were on bigger gears than a compact 28!
Exhausted over the top and very slow up Wrynose into the breeze, shorter but still very steep. Thing is you're not done, plenty to go at this point.
Were I to do it again I'd definitely be looking at 32 or even 34 on a compact. Something of that order. You get to a point where the gear gets too small so keeping the momentum might become a problem on a 36 or bigger, easier to drop off and put a foot down? Don't know. Still tough but I'd think most strong riders would get up on a 34. You likely want the 50 for the flatter sections
It's a great event, the organisers/marshalls are awesome. Follow the advice, if they're waving you to slow do it! The descents are treacherous (and fun) particularly in the wet/damp and the runout is generally a drystone wall. Kirkstone is fast but has off camber sections, one poor lad hit the wall, fortunately his crash saved me, speed I was going might have followed him but the marshalls were slowing us. Lesson learned!
It's a great day out and all of those I rode with enjoyed - none have been back! Will do it again one day. Best of luck
Edit btw I rode a 6 kg Cannondale, rim brakes on carbon wheels, pump the brakes on the steeps and it shouldn't be a problem. Tubeless saved me 10mins, I was told after that I was spraying sealant at one point.
I did it last year on 34/50 and 11/28. Hardknott really was a winch.
I'm not doing it this year, but if I were, my new 12s 11/34 cassette would get good use ie 1:1 gearing.
Any lower (on a road bike) and you are at walking pace.
I would use mtb (SPD 2 bolt) shoes and pedals, so that if you do get off and walk, you can at least do so with recessed cleats.
I'm not doing it this year, but if I were, my new 12s 11/34 cassette would get good use ie 1:1 gearing.
Any lower (on a road bike) and you are at walking pace.
I would use mtb (SPD 2 bolt) shoes and pedals, so that if you do get off and walk, you can at least do so with recessed cleats.
Look 695 aerolight eTap 11
Boardman TTE eTap 11
Brompton S2 LX ti custom
Trek 5500 1994 Sram Red 10
Boardman CXR9.8 eTap 11
Open UPPER - DA 9270
Ridley x-fire Sram Red 10
and lots of non- WW others.
Boardman TTE eTap 11
Brompton S2 LX ti custom
Trek 5500 1994 Sram Red 10
Boardman CXR9.8 eTap 11
Open UPPER - DA 9270
Ridley x-fire Sram Red 10
and lots of non- WW others.
I'm not a particuarly strong or weak cyclist (threshold was 4w/kg when I did this last year), but I didn't find my low gear of 33/36 was too low by any stretch and was very grateful for having it. Even at 60 rpm on 33/36, you're doing 4.4 mph, still well above walking pace, and at that speed I would be putting out more that 350 watts for extended periods when the grades got over 20%. You can't really have too low a gear for Hardknott in my book.expatscot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 6:09 pmI did it last year on 34/50 and 11/28. Hardknott really was a winch.
I'm not doing it this year, but if I were, my new 12s 11/34 cassette would get good use ie 1:1 gearing.
Any lower (on a road bike) and you are at walking pace.
I would use mtb (SPD 2 bolt) shoes and pedals, so that if you do get off and walk, you can at least do so with recessed cleats.
This year the Fred Whitton journey was also mine. The event was two days ago. I got round, not fast, but I got round. Didn't quite manage Hardknott, I faltered at the Mountain Rescue landrover attending the casualty for whom the air ambulance was called which caused a temporary route blockage (missed that fortunately). Did ride Wrynose clean. The weather was beautiful, the scenery was stunning, the ambience was supportive and friendly. It's a terrific event but, man, the gradients are next level mad.
Way, WAY ahead of me, some 17 year old kid finished the course in a new record of 5hr26. This is for 180km with nine named climbs totalling 3500m of elevation. From what I can see, the second place rider was outside 6 hours.
Plenty of groups to ride with early on
Honister Pass
First feed, well organised
Newlands
Hardknott. It's hard to convey how difficult this climb is but I have a video in edit that will try show it
They've survived Wrynose
It's all about the hills: Blea Tarn
Very well marshaled
Made it to the finish
Way, WAY ahead of me, some 17 year old kid finished the course in a new record of 5hr26. This is for 180km with nine named climbs totalling 3500m of elevation. From what I can see, the second place rider was outside 6 hours.
Plenty of groups to ride with early on
Honister Pass
First feed, well organised
Newlands
Hardknott. It's hard to convey how difficult this climb is but I have a video in edit that will try show it
They've survived Wrynose
It's all about the hills: Blea Tarn
Very well marshaled
Made it to the finish
cycling / nature / music
https://www.youtube.com/c/Millerbike01
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Round in 7hr 36 elapsed, 7hr 22 riding.
I was amazed at my time. The plan was to take it very easy but to minimise stops and it worked very, very well. I had a helper waiting at the top of Whinlatter (roughly half way) with 2 more bottles and some food, and other than a couple of calls of nature, that was my only stop; tortoise vs hare and all that.
It's an amazing event; the organisation is spectacularly good. That we were blessed with good weather was a huge bonus. A few pics attached.
I was amazed at my time. The plan was to take it very easy but to minimise stops and it worked very, very well. I had a helper waiting at the top of Whinlatter (roughly half way) with 2 more bottles and some food, and other than a couple of calls of nature, that was my only stop; tortoise vs hare and all that.
It's an amazing event; the organisation is spectacularly good. That we were blessed with good weather was a huge bonus. A few pics attached.
Brilliant photos guys, and well done on your accomplishments. Decent weather makes all the difference, and I shudder to think what this would be like in the wet. I did this last year, and really enjoyed having a big event to focus my training on, so I'm going to try to get in again next year, which will be my 60th on this earth.
If you liked the photos you should enjoy this video.
cycling / nature / music
https://www.youtube.com/c/Millerbike01
https://www.youtube.com/c/Millerbike01
Great stuff. Looking forward to the rest. BTW, how do you keep your cameras charged?
No one talks about Honister, but the start is brutally steep and a real shock to the system when you first encounter it! Did you start really early as there were many more cyclists to dodge when I was doing it?
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