Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!
Moderator: robbosmans
-
chuingbeans
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:57 am
by chuingbeans on Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:07 am
LanceLegstrong wrote:If the old TT shifters are able to shift the new 12s RD, it would seem that it's just a firmware update that makes it compatible. So there really isn't a reason the old road shifters (8000/9100) couldn't work other than Shimano doesn't want them to.
My understanding is the TT shifters connect via an adaptor (Shimano AD-305) due to the different connectors 12s (it’s a little smaller). Could one not just do the same for older 11s hoods?
It wouldn’t be “wireless” but then all you would need is the adaptor, a new battery and derailleurs.
-
Aeo
- Posts: 684
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:06 am
by Aeo on Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:23 am
The
BL-RX812 do not have Servo Wave. They are listed to be compatible with BR-R9270 and BR-R8170.
This should mean you can operate the new brakes with a non-Servo Wave lever.
Giant TCR Adv Pro Disc '17 · BH Lynx Race Evo '19 · Seraph GR029 '21 · Canyon Inflite AL '14
-
spdntrxi
- Posts: 5839
- Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm
by spdntrxi on Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:30 am
chuingbeans wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:07 am
LanceLegstrong wrote:If the old TT shifters are able to shift the new 12s RD, it would seem that it's just a firmware update that makes it compatible. So there really isn't a reason the old road shifters (8000/9100) couldn't work other than Shimano doesn't want them to.
My understanding is the TT shifters connect via an adaptor (Shimano AD-305) due to the different connectors 12s (it’s a little smaller). Could one not just do the same for older 11s hoods?
It wouldn’t be “wireless” but then all you would need is the adaptor, a new battery and derailleurs.
it will be tried..but software is likely to lock it out.
2024 BMC TeamMachine R
2018 BMC TImeMachine Road
2002 Moots Compact-SL
2019 Parlee Z0XD - "classified"
2023 Pivot E-Vault
-
BigBoyND
- Posts: 1416
- Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
- Location: Berlin, DE
by BigBoyND on Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:30 am
Aeo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:23 am
The
BL-RX812 do not have Servo Wave. They are listed to be compatible with BR-R9270 and BR-R8170.
This should mean you can operate the new brakes with a non-Servo Wave lever.
Interesting. I was wondering what servo wave meant for the Hope RX4+ and Trickstuff C21. Would be nice if they were compatible. They're less appealing now that the DA calipers dropped 25g, but there's another 35g to be saved.
-
Klaster_1
- Posts: 1390
- Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:25 am
- Location: Paphos, Cyprus
by Klaster_1 on Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:00 am
BigBoyND wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:30 am
They're less appealing now that the DA calipers dropped 25g, but there's another 35g to be saved.
Is that from the official full assembly weight or caliper-only weights are available somewhere too?
-
mrlobber
- Posts: 1939
- Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
- Location: Where the permanent autumn is
by mrlobber on Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:16 am
^ good question, haven't seen any.
On current DA disc builds, Hope RX4+ would save ~45g vs stock DA calipers (160/140 config). I base this on scale shots of Hope calipers at r2-bike, and published weights of DA calipers (including brake pads(?) ) on ccache.cc.
Minimum bike categories required in the stable:
Aero bike | GC bike | GC rim bike | Climbing bike | Climbing rim bike | Classics bike | Gravel bike | TT bike | Indoors bike
-
LanceLegstrong
- Posts: 1145
- Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:35 pm
by LanceLegstrong on Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:21 am
chuingbeans wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:07 am
LanceLegstrong wrote:If the old TT shifters are able to shift the new 12s RD, it would seem that it's just a firmware update that makes it compatible. So there really isn't a reason the old road shifters (8000/9100) couldn't work other than Shimano doesn't want them to.
My understanding is the TT shifters connect via an adaptor (Shimano AD-305) due to the different connectors 12s (it’s a little smaller). Could one not just do the same for older 11s hoods?
It wouldn’t be “wireless” but then all you would need is the adaptor, a new battery and derailleurs.
That was my point. It's possible to wire it together, seems only to be a software issue that Shimano has createed to not allow it.
Specialized Tarmac SL7
Specialized Crux
Velobuild 168
Trek Checkpoint ALR
-
Klaster_1
- Posts: 1390
- Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:25 am
- Location: Paphos, Cyprus
by Klaster_1 on Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:37 am
LanceLegstrong wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:21 am
That was my point. It's possible to wire it together, seems only to be a software issue that Shimano has createed to not allow it.
I suspect it might be possible to put the TT shifter guts into any old levers to fake the device ID, if that's how the hypothetical check works. Still cheaper than buying new levers.
-
Ritxis
- Posts: 1126
- Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
- Location: San Sebastian
by Ritxis on Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:02 am
Klaster_1 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:37 am
LanceLegstrong wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:21 am
That was my point. It's possible to wire it together, seems only to be a software issue that Shimano has createed to not allow it.
I suspect it might be possible to put the TT shifter guts into any old levers to fake the device ID, if that's how the hypothetical check works. Still cheaper than buying new levers.
Compatible TT levers are one button only.......the "old" TT/Tri 9070/6870 shifters 2-button are also not supported
-
Karvalo
- Posts: 3472
- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm
by Karvalo on Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:20 pm
BigBoyND wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:30 am
Aeo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:23 am
The
BL-RX812 do not have Servo Wave. They are listed to be compatible with BR-R9270 and BR-R8170.
This should mean you can operate the new brakes with a non-Servo Wave lever.
Interesting. I was wondering what servo wave meant for the Hope RX4+ and Trickstuff C21. Would be nice if they were compatible. They're less appealing now that the DA calipers dropped 25g, but there's another 35g to be saved.
The RX4+ are compatible with all the current GRX levers which include servowave and non servowave versions. Heck, Grx 800 itself only has one caliper version, which again comes plumbed into both types of lever. So even within Shimano's product family servowave vs non servowave levers has absolutely nothing to do with caliper compatibility.
-
BigBoyND
- Posts: 1416
- Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
- Location: Berlin, DE
by BigBoyND on Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:25 pm
Good to know. And does the increased pad clearance/travel on the new DA calipers come from the lever reservoir or caliper design? In other words, will RX4+ calipers also see greater clearance with the new levers?
-
jeffy
- Posts: 1325
- Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm
by jeffy on Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:53 pm
E46M3 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:47 am
I'm planning on ordering the new calipers (BR-R8170) for my R8070 Di2, the extra 10mm clearance should hopefully make a difference, already running the 12speed chain.
let us know how you get on, interesterd in their is any difference in lever travel / performance for braking with the new ult caliper.
what rings are you running the 12 speed chain on?
-
5DII
- Posts: 281
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:52 pm
by 5DII on Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:48 am
Curious if the 12 speed cassette spacing will be the same as SRAM and Campy. With mechanical rim brakes gone, maybe will switch to Campy 12 speed groupsets and continue to use my shimano freehub wheels with a shimano 12 sp cassette
-
jrdn
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:49 am
by jrdn on Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:10 am
Hi all, I am looking at new Ultegra cranks 50-34, 165 or even 160mm length. Will it be compatible with current Ultegra 8070? Chart shows nothing, but given that many use 12 speed chain on 11 speed drivetrain, I think it can be done. Any reasons not to?
-
Gazelleer
- Posts: 735
- Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:13 pm
- Location: Netherlands
by Gazelleer on Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:39 pm
I've been mixing road and mtb Di2 in the past. This is what I suspect.
Let's suppose you'd want to go from 11-speed to 12-speed. The 11-speed crankset appears to be compatible.
Thus far, Shimano Di2 rear derailleurs have only been compatible with a specific number of gears. Moreover, the electronics of your junction box are now in the rear derailleur. So you'd need at least the rear derailleur along with a 12-speed cassette and chain.
The shifters are dumb knobs, so your old shifters will likely be compatible. The same goes for the battery.
The front derailleur is the question. It hasn't been possible to mix road and mtb front and rear derailleurs, I expect the same to be true for mixing 11- and 12-speed. I therefore expect you"d need the 12-speed front derailleur too.