The Shimano 11s to 12s compatibility thread

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tiz92
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 3:36 pm

by tiz92

E46M3 wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:47 am
I'm planning on ordering the new calipers (BR-R8170) for my R8070 Di2, the extra 10mm clearance should hopefully make a difference, already running the 12speed chain.
Try it. Or please someone trys and reports. I would instabuy that.

E46M3
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:11 am
Location: Australia

by E46M3

tiz92 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:07 am
E46M3 wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:47 am
I'm planning on ordering the new calipers (BR-R8170) for my R8070 Di2, the extra 10mm clearance should hopefully make a difference, already running the 12speed chain.
Try it. Or please someone trys and reports. I would instabuy that.
Shimano compatibility chart says no :( Guess the shifters have larger fluid tank.

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Alfus
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:34 pm

by Alfus

E46M3 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:30 am
Alfus wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:06 pm
E46M3 wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:47 am
I'm planning on ordering the new calipers (BR-R8170) for my R8070 Di2, the extra 10mm clearance should hopefully make a difference, already running the 12speed chain.
Is not going to work.

Can you explain why?
Servo

Karvalo
Posts: 3444
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

tymon_tm wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:27 pm
I often get the impression if they'd switch brake levers the other way round, lots of folks here would just go extatic.. "I've always wanted to operate rear brake with my left hand", "it's what pros want!" :roll:
Errrm, you do realise that entire countries already do exactly that, right?

Karvalo
Posts: 3444
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

bilwit wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:46 am
CyclingNews says the rim brake 9200 shifters are just rebranded 9100 shifters... which suggests that 9100 di2 rim brake shifters are compatible with the 12spd derailleurs (unless software locked out of it). This is interesting to note because it would make 9100 shifters & RD with 9200 FD be the most WW di2 option, though by only a mere 8g or so.
You're clearly not going to be able to do that because the brain and charging port of the new system is in the R9200 RD and the software update for TT shifters doesn't allow for a junction A to be plugged in instead.

Otherwise it would be super shitty for them not to put out an update to allow for the R9150 shifters to be used, but oh well.

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Klaster_1
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:25 am
Location: Paphos, Cyprus

by Klaster_1

Alfus wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:30 pm
Servo
Servo Wave does not seem to cause problems for MTB caliper compatibility. Isn't it simply a non-linear master cylinder actuation?
Last edited by Klaster_1 on Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gern
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:57 pm

by Gern

One would think that the new calipers would work with old levers. I recognize that the master cylinder activation in the Servo levers is non-linear, but the caliper should not care. Pressure is pressure. Automotive calipers get changed all the time 4 piston to 6 piston, etc, and nobody is changing master cylinders. Wasn't Froome using non-Shimano calipers with Shimano levers to get rid of rubbing?

DaveS
Posts: 3922
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Loveland Colorado

by DaveS

Volume of fluid moved must be the same, or you might run out of lever travel. I've switched the master cylinder on cars from a 1 inch to .875 inch to get more pressure, but the pedal travel went up a lot.
Last edited by DaveS on Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tomtom
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:01 am

by tomtom

Gern wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:51 pm
One would think that the new calipers would work with old levers. I recognize that the master cylinder activation in the Servo levers is non-linear, but the caliper should not care. Pressure is pressure. Automotive calipers get changed all the time 4 piston to 6 piston, etc, and nobody is changing master cylinders. Wasn't Froome using non-Shimano calipers with Shimano levers to get rid of rubbing?
What calipers did Fromie use?
Canyon Aeroad CFR
Canyon Grail CF

nigel379
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:23 am

by nigel379

TwiggyForest wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:05 am
MagicShite wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:56 am
Anyone knows if the 12S chainrings uses the same BCD as the previous 11 speed?

Would be great if I can back my spider based power meter.
No the bolt holes are in different locations.
Where have you seen that they changed their 4x110bcd? I too was hoping to use my existing powermeter

nigel379
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:23 am

by nigel379

nigel379 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:08 pm
TwiggyForest wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:05 am
MagicShite wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:56 am
Anyone knows if the 12S chainrings uses the same BCD as the previous 11 speed?

Would be great if I can back my spider based power meter.
No the bolt holes are in different locations.
Where have you seen that they changed their 4x110bcd? I too was hoping to use my existing powermeter
Nevermind, I found it myself:
"The chainring bolts once again feed through the crankarm spider tabs from the backside, and — of course — the bolt circle pattern is tweaked yet again from previous generations. It’s still a four-arm pattern, but old cranks won’t work with new chainrings, and vice versa. "

Omiar
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:20 pm

by Omiar

nigel379 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:08 pm
TwiggyForest wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:05 am
MagicShite wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:56 am
Anyone knows if the 12S chainrings uses the same BCD as the previous 11 speed?

Would be great if I can back my spider based power meter.
No the bolt holes are in different locations.
Where have you seen that they changed their 4x110bcd? I too was hoping to use my existing powermeter
I would say that depends on your powermeter spider.
For example, power2max spiders have flat surface and no chainring specific chamfering. So all existin p2m spiders for 4x110-S chainrings should also accept new chainrings.
I also asked p2m about it and they said: "We have not yet carried out an assembly test, but we do not see any changes to the chainrings and assume that the chainrings will fit."
Cannondale SystemSix R8170
Trek Checkpoint SL5 MY2022

Gern
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:57 pm

by Gern

tomtom wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:02 pm
Gern wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:51 pm
One would think that the new calipers would work with old levers. I recognize that the master cylinder activation in the Servo levers is non-linear, but the caliper should not care. Pressure is pressure. Automotive calipers get changed all the time 4 piston to 6 piston, etc, and nobody is changing master cylinders. Wasn't Froome using non-Shimano calipers with Shimano levers to get rid of rubbing?
What calipers did Fromie use?
Road.cc said that they were Magura.

TwiggyForest
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:06 am

by TwiggyForest

Omiar wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:28 pm
nigel379 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:08 pm
TwiggyForest wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:05 am
MagicShite wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:56 am
Anyone knows if the 12S chainrings uses the same BCD as the previous 11 speed?

Would be great if I can back my spider based power meter.
No the bolt holes are in different locations.
Where have you seen that they changed their 4x110bcd? I too was hoping to use my existing powermeter
I would say that depends on your powermeter spider.
For example, power2max spiders have flat surface and no chainring specific chamfering. So all existin p2m spiders for 4x110-S chainrings should also accept new chainrings.
I also asked p2m about it and they said: "We have not yet carried out an assembly test, but we do not see any changes to the chainrings and assume that the chainrings will fit."
As Nigel said, its still 110 BCD but the location of the bolt holes on that circle has changed apparently.

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RDY
Posts: 2355
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

ducman wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:55 am
10mm? 10% you mean... = +/_ 2mm 🤔
E46M3 wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:47 am
I'm planning on ordering the new calipers (BR-R8170) for my R8070 Di2, the extra 10mm clearance should hopefully make a difference, already running the 12speed chain.
From what I understand, they're talking about the gap from pad to pad. That's ... 2.5-3mm? So once the rotor has eaten 0.8mm of the 0.25-0.3mm gain, you're looking at pad to rotor clearance of 1.25mm instead of 1.1mm (assuming it's 3mm on old gen). Anything is an improvement, but in most cases it's really not going to make enough difference to matter, or possibly any difference. Still gonna need to face the flat mounts, and true the rotors all the time.

Especially as you won't be getting servo wave, I really wouldn't bother getting the new calipers if you're sticking with old gen.

Also, little prospect of being able to get the new bleed kits any time soon.

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