Try it. Or please someone trys and reports. I would instabuy that.
The Shimano 11s to 12s compatibility thread
Moderator: robbosmans
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Errrm, you do realise that entire countries already do exactly that, right?
You're clearly not going to be able to do that because the brain and charging port of the new system is in the R9200 RD and the software update for TT shifters doesn't allow for a junction A to be plugged in instead.bilwit wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:46 amCyclingNews says the rim brake 9200 shifters are just rebranded 9100 shifters... which suggests that 9100 di2 rim brake shifters are compatible with the 12spd derailleurs (unless software locked out of it). This is interesting to note because it would make 9100 shifters & RD with 9200 FD be the most WW di2 option, though by only a mere 8g or so.
Otherwise it would be super shitty for them not to put out an update to allow for the R9150 shifters to be used, but oh well.
Servo Wave does not seem to cause problems for MTB caliper compatibility. Isn't it simply a non-linear master cylinder actuation?
Last edited by Klaster_1 on Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
One would think that the new calipers would work with old levers. I recognize that the master cylinder activation in the Servo levers is non-linear, but the caliper should not care. Pressure is pressure. Automotive calipers get changed all the time 4 piston to 6 piston, etc, and nobody is changing master cylinders. Wasn't Froome using non-Shimano calipers with Shimano levers to get rid of rubbing?
Volume of fluid moved must be the same, or you might run out of lever travel. I've switched the master cylinder on cars from a 1 inch to .875 inch to get more pressure, but the pedal travel went up a lot.
Last edited by DaveS on Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What calipers did Fromie use?Gern wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:51 pmOne would think that the new calipers would work with old levers. I recognize that the master cylinder activation in the Servo levers is non-linear, but the caliper should not care. Pressure is pressure. Automotive calipers get changed all the time 4 piston to 6 piston, etc, and nobody is changing master cylinders. Wasn't Froome using non-Shimano calipers with Shimano levers to get rid of rubbing?
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Where have you seen that they changed their 4x110bcd? I too was hoping to use my existing powermeterTwiggyForest wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:05 amNo the bolt holes are in different locations.MagicShite wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:56 amAnyone knows if the 12S chainrings uses the same BCD as the previous 11 speed?
Would be great if I can back my spider based power meter.
Nevermind, I found it myself:nigel379 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:08 pmWhere have you seen that they changed their 4x110bcd? I too was hoping to use my existing powermeterTwiggyForest wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:05 amNo the bolt holes are in different locations.MagicShite wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:56 amAnyone knows if the 12S chainrings uses the same BCD as the previous 11 speed?
Would be great if I can back my spider based power meter.
"The chainring bolts once again feed through the crankarm spider tabs from the backside, and — of course — the bolt circle pattern is tweaked yet again from previous generations. It’s still a four-arm pattern, but old cranks won’t work with new chainrings, and vice versa. "
I would say that depends on your powermeter spider.nigel379 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:08 pmWhere have you seen that they changed their 4x110bcd? I too was hoping to use my existing powermeterTwiggyForest wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:05 amNo the bolt holes are in different locations.MagicShite wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:56 amAnyone knows if the 12S chainrings uses the same BCD as the previous 11 speed?
Would be great if I can back my spider based power meter.
For example, power2max spiders have flat surface and no chainring specific chamfering. So all existin p2m spiders for 4x110-S chainrings should also accept new chainrings.
I also asked p2m about it and they said: "We have not yet carried out an assembly test, but we do not see any changes to the chainrings and assume that the chainrings will fit."
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Road.cc said that they were Magura.tomtom wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:02 pmWhat calipers did Fromie use?Gern wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:51 pmOne would think that the new calipers would work with old levers. I recognize that the master cylinder activation in the Servo levers is non-linear, but the caliper should not care. Pressure is pressure. Automotive calipers get changed all the time 4 piston to 6 piston, etc, and nobody is changing master cylinders. Wasn't Froome using non-Shimano calipers with Shimano levers to get rid of rubbing?
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As Nigel said, its still 110 BCD but the location of the bolt holes on that circle has changed apparently.Omiar wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:28 pmI would say that depends on your powermeter spider.nigel379 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:08 pmWhere have you seen that they changed their 4x110bcd? I too was hoping to use my existing powermeterTwiggyForest wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:05 amNo the bolt holes are in different locations.MagicShite wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:56 amAnyone knows if the 12S chainrings uses the same BCD as the previous 11 speed?
Would be great if I can back my spider based power meter.
For example, power2max spiders have flat surface and no chainring specific chamfering. So all existin p2m spiders for 4x110-S chainrings should also accept new chainrings.
I also asked p2m about it and they said: "We have not yet carried out an assembly test, but we do not see any changes to the chainrings and assume that the chainrings will fit."
From what I understand, they're talking about the gap from pad to pad. That's ... 2.5-3mm? So once the rotor has eaten 0.8mm of the 0.25-0.3mm gain, you're looking at pad to rotor clearance of 1.25mm instead of 1.1mm (assuming it's 3mm on old gen). Anything is an improvement, but in most cases it's really not going to make enough difference to matter, or possibly any difference. Still gonna need to face the flat mounts, and true the rotors all the time.
Especially as you won't be getting servo wave, I really wouldn't bother getting the new calipers if you're sticking with old gen.
Also, little prospect of being able to get the new bleed kits any time soon.
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