Shigura (Shimano road lever & Magura disc caliper)

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kitchencity
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:06 pm

by kitchencity

WorkonSunday wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:33 am
sorry for hi-jacking the thread. I was once told some Shimano road levers dont work with 4 pot calipers as their resvior does not hold enough liquid to allow the piston to actuate fully. However, this was at least 2 years ago, is this still the case? i saw Chris Froome's bike using 4-pot calipers, presumably the Dura Ace line is ok with 4-pot calipers?
You can measure the master cylinder bore with a pair of calipers from the back of the lever when it's dismounted. I meant to do so but forgot before mounting. I'd be surprised if it has changed with the new generation of grx/8100/9200/7100 Servowave levers.

by Weenie


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tomtom
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:01 am

by tomtom

RDY wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:07 pm
Has anyone tried this lately? Saw someone comment about it on a CycleSpeed YT video.

Magura do their MT8 SL in FM (Flat Mount), and I think all their MT8s can accommodate between 140 and 200mm rotors.

AFAIK the amount of fluid they push is ballpark the same, for the 2 piston designs, and the fluid question could be solved with Bionol.

But how do you connect them? Aren't hoses different sizes?

The Maguras are a lot more powerful than DA / UT and have more clearance (if using thinner road rotors) and better piston retraction. Also I think they'll be lighter than DA.

I've also thought about trying Formula Curas (their QDC is a big advantage).
DA is lighter, the new 9270 has more clearance and braking is super (also according to numerous testers/reviews). Normally the critical point is tyre friction/roadcontact and/or rider skills and not so much the discbraking power itself. So I'm very curious which (real) advantages a switch to MT8 SL could/should bring.
Canyon Aeroad CFR
Canyon Grail CF

dslaw
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:03 pm

by dslaw

tomtom wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:14 am
RDY wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:07 pm
Has anyone tried this lately? Saw someone comment about it on a CycleSpeed YT video.

Magura do their MT8 SL in FM (Flat Mount), and I think all their MT8s can accommodate between 140 and 200mm rotors.

AFAIK the amount of fluid they push is ballpark the same, for the 2 piston designs, and the fluid question could be solved with Bionol.

But how do you connect them? Aren't hoses different sizes?

The Maguras are a lot more powerful than DA / UT and have more clearance (if using thinner road rotors) and better piston retraction. Also I think they'll be lighter than DA.

I've also thought about trying Formula Curas (their QDC is a big advantage).
DA is lighter, the new 9270 has more clearance and braking is super (also according to numerous testers/reviews). Normally the critical point is tyre friction/roadcontact and/or rider skills and not so much the discbraking power itself. So I'm very curious which (real) advantages a switch to MT8 SL could/should bring.
I just had to warranty a front caliper from the new 12 speed group set. Pre-ride the caliper is aligned with no disc rub. Mid ride all sorts of rubbing going on and having to trigger the brake multiple times to 'reset' the clearance. Have had similar issues with 2pot mountain brakes as well.

I agree the clearance is larger than the previous generation - but they're still not reliable.

Main advantages of the Magura MT8 SL FM are even larger disc clearance and more reliable piston retraction. It's been frustrating enough that I'm willing to give it a go.

StiffWeenies
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm

by StiffWeenies

tomtom wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:14 am
RDY wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:07 pm
Has anyone tried this lately? Saw someone comment about it on a CycleSpeed YT video.

Magura do their MT8 SL in FM (Flat Mount), and I think all their MT8s can accommodate between 140 and 200mm rotors.

AFAIK the amount of fluid they push is ballpark the same, for the 2 piston designs, and the fluid question could be solved with Bionol.

But how do you connect them? Aren't hoses different sizes?

The Maguras are a lot more powerful than DA / UT and have more clearance (if using thinner road rotors) and better piston retraction. Also I think they'll be lighter than DA.

I've also thought about trying Formula Curas (their QDC is a big advantage).
DA is lighter, the new 9270 has more clearance and braking is super (also according to numerous testers/reviews). Normally the critical point is tyre friction/roadcontact and/or rider skills and not so much the discbraking power itself. So I'm very curious which (real) advantages a switch to MT8 SL could/should bring.
I believe most of the braking power gains come from the levers as opposed to the calipers

RDY
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

StiffWeenies wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:53 pm
tomtom wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:14 am
RDY wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:07 pm
Has anyone tried this lately? Saw someone comment about it on a CycleSpeed YT video.

Magura do their MT8 SL in FM (Flat Mount), and I think all their MT8s can accommodate between 140 and 200mm rotors.

AFAIK the amount of fluid they push is ballpark the same, for the 2 piston designs, and the fluid question could be solved with Bionol.

But how do you connect them? Aren't hoses different sizes?

The Maguras are a lot more powerful than DA / UT and have more clearance (if using thinner road rotors) and better piston retraction. Also I think they'll be lighter than DA.

I've also thought about trying Formula Curas (their QDC is a big advantage).
DA is lighter, the new 9270 has more clearance and braking is super (also according to numerous testers/reviews). Normally the critical point is tyre friction/roadcontact and/or rider skills and not so much the discbraking power itself. So I'm very curious which (real) advantages a switch to MT8 SL could/should bring.
I believe most of the braking power gains come from the levers as opposed to the calipers
Indeed, I feel zero discernable difference in power or modulation between GRX Di2 levers (servowave) with standard calipers and DA9270 levers (also servowave) and calipers. Only difference is that GRX Di2 hoods don't feel like a flimsy toy and the shape is way better.

StiffWeenies
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm

by StiffWeenies

RDY wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:25 pm
StiffWeenies wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:53 pm
tomtom wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:14 am
RDY wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:07 pm
Has anyone tried this lately? Saw someone comment about it on a CycleSpeed YT video.

Magura do their MT8 SL in FM (Flat Mount), and I think all their MT8s can accommodate between 140 and 200mm rotors.

AFAIK the amount of fluid they push is ballpark the same, for the 2 piston designs, and the fluid question could be solved with Bionol.

But how do you connect them? Aren't hoses different sizes?

The Maguras are a lot more powerful than DA / UT and have more clearance (if using thinner road rotors) and better piston retraction. Also I think they'll be lighter than DA.

I've also thought about trying Formula Curas (their QDC is a big advantage).
DA is lighter, the new 9270 has more clearance and braking is super (also according to numerous testers/reviews). Normally the critical point is tyre friction/roadcontact and/or rider skills and not so much the discbraking power itself. So I'm very curious which (real) advantages a switch to MT8 SL could/should bring.
I believe most of the braking power gains come from the levers as opposed to the calipers
Indeed, I feel zero discernable difference in power or modulation between GRX Di2 levers (servowave) with standard calipers and DA9270 levers (also servowave) and calipers. Only difference is that GRX Di2 hoods don't feel like a flimsy toy and the shape is way better.
How do you like the GRX Di2 levers for road? I know they're marketed as gravel but I'm curious if the hood shape would be detrimental in an aggressive aero hood position with the levers mounted pointing inwards. The higher pivot point should also make braking easier for those with smaller hands.

dslaw
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:03 pm

by dslaw

StiffWeenies wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:49 pm
RDY wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:25 pm
StiffWeenies wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:53 pm
tomtom wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:14 am


DA is lighter, the new 9270 has more clearance and braking is super (also according to numerous testers/reviews). Normally the critical point is tyre friction/roadcontact and/or rider skills and not so much the discbraking power itself. So I'm very curious which (real) advantages a switch to MT8 SL could/should bring.
I believe most of the braking power gains come from the levers as opposed to the calipers
Indeed, I feel zero discernable difference in power or modulation between GRX Di2 levers (servowave) with standard calipers and DA9270 levers (also servowave) and calipers. Only difference is that GRX Di2 hoods don't feel like a flimsy toy and the shape is way better.
How do you like the GRX Di2 levers for road? I know they're marketed as gravel but I'm curious if the hood shape would be detrimental in an aggressive aero hood position with the levers mounted pointing inwards. The higher pivot point should also make braking easier for those with smaller hands.
The GRX DI2 are awesome all around (better than road in my opinion too)

Unfortunately 11 speed di2 doesn't play with 12 speed di2.
If you're going with the new 12 speed kit, you're stuck with road levers until GRX catches up.

RDY
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

StiffWeenies wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:49 pm
RDY wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:25 pm
StiffWeenies wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:53 pm
tomtom wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:14 am


DA is lighter, the new 9270 has more clearance and braking is super (also according to numerous testers/reviews). Normally the critical point is tyre friction/roadcontact and/or rider skills and not so much the discbraking power itself. So I'm very curious which (real) advantages a switch to MT8 SL could/should bring.
I believe most of the braking power gains come from the levers as opposed to the calipers
Indeed, I feel zero discernable difference in power or modulation between GRX Di2 levers (servowave) with standard calipers and DA9270 levers (also servowave) and calipers. Only difference is that GRX Di2 hoods don't feel like a flimsy toy and the shape is way better.
How do you like the GRX Di2 levers for road? I know they're marketed as gravel but I'm curious if the hood shape would be detrimental in an aggressive aero hood position with the levers mounted pointing inwards. The higher pivot point should also make braking easier for those with smaller hands.
If you're not on Swiss / Danish roads (i.e. smooth as glass), then actually having something to hold on to in the aero hood position is majorly benificial. If you spend all your time on the drops and you care about aero, then I guess DA / Ultegra 92 / 81. Also having DA 9270 brifters and having tried 8170 brifters, I'd take the 8170 every time now. Every 9270 I've tried the hood flexes significantly and to varying degrees. Some also creak ... mine do - loads. They're awful IMO. 9170 were very solid, despite similar lightness.

StiffWeenies
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm

by StiffWeenies

dslaw wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:01 pm
The GRX DI2 are awesome all around (better than road in my opinion too)

Unfortunately 11 speed di2 doesn't play with 12 speed di2.
If you're going with the new 12 speed kit, you're stuck with road levers until GRX catches up.
Thanks! Hopefully GRX Di2 12s will have space for two coin cells like 105 Di2
RDY wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:01 pm
If you're not on Swiss / Danish roads (i.e. smooth as glass), then actually having something to hold on to in the aero hood position is majorly benificial. If you spend all your time on the drops and you care about aero, then I guess DA / Ultegra 92 / 81. Also having DA 9270 brifters and having tried 8170 brifters, I'd take the 8170 every time now. Every 9270 I've tried the hood flexes significantly and to varying degrees. Some also creak ... mine do - loads. They're awful IMO. 9170 were very solid, despite similar lightness.
I'm on SRAM and find myself vastly preferring Rival levers over RED because the latter are just far too chunky. My aero position is also dialed in at the hoods rather than the drops so GRX Di2 sounds really nice to me.

And do you think the creaking comes down to them trying to save weight?

kitchencity
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:06 pm

by kitchencity

I thought the 8170 were identical to 9270 in every respect other than the blade being carbon on the latter... Any pictures to the contrary?

Hexsense
Posts: 3270
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

^ and titanium bar clamp instead of steel band.
While less stiff, titanium bar clamp resist corrosion much better. I've seen many bar clamps rot under sweaty bar tape.

RDY
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

kitchencity wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:26 pm
I thought the 8170 were identical to 9270 in every respect other than the blade being carbon on the latter... Any pictures to the contrary?
if that's the case then either the Ultegras I tried were 'good' ones, or all the DAs bad.

RDY
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

StiffWeenies wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:17 pm
dslaw wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:01 pm
The GRX DI2 are awesome all around (better than road in my opinion too)

Unfortunately 11 speed di2 doesn't play with 12 speed di2.
If you're going with the new 12 speed kit, you're stuck with road levers until GRX catches up.
Thanks! Hopefully GRX Di2 12s will have space for two coin cells like 105 Di2
RDY wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:01 pm
If you're not on Swiss / Danish roads (i.e. smooth as glass), then actually having something to hold on to in the aero hood position is majorly benificial. If you spend all your time on the drops and you care about aero, then I guess DA / Ultegra 92 / 81. Also having DA 9270 brifters and having tried 8170 brifters, I'd take the 8170 every time now. Every 9270 I've tried the hood flexes significantly and to varying degrees. Some also creak ... mine do - loads. They're awful IMO. 9170 were very solid, despite similar lightness.
I'm on SRAM and find myself vastly preferring Rival levers over RED because the latter are just far too chunky. My aero position is also dialed in at the hoods rather than the drops so GRX Di2 sounds really nice to me.

And do you think the creaking comes down to them trying to save weight?
I don't know. It's not just the creak. It's very noticeable flex. The levers are fine. It's the hood body that doesn't feel solid. Think the only other hoods I've felt that had similar lack of rigidity were a really beaten up and poorly maintained set of mechanical Rival of ~10 year old vintage which I had to ride for an afternoon.

GRX Di2 are more chunky, but not as wide as SRAM RED. Main 'benefit' is them having more to hold on to at the top. There's not much height on 92xx / 81xx to hold on to, even if the shape is nice.

Attermann
Posts: 916
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:04 pm
Location: Denmark

by Attermann

RDY wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:01 pm
StiffWeenies wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:49 pm
RDY wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:25 pm
StiffWeenies wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:53 pm


I believe most of the braking power gains come from the levers as opposed to the calipers
Indeed, I feel zero discernable difference in power or modulation between GRX Di2 levers (servowave) with standard calipers and DA9270 levers (also servowave) and calipers. Only difference is that GRX Di2 hoods don't feel like a flimsy toy and the shape is way better.
How do you like the GRX Di2 levers for road? I know they're marketed as gravel but I'm curious if the hood shape would be detrimental in an aggressive aero hood position with the levers mounted pointing inwards. The higher pivot point should also make braking easier for those with smaller hands.
If you're not on Swiss / Danish roads (i.e. smooth as glass), then actually having something to hold on to in the aero hood position is majorly benificial. If you spend all your time on the drops and you care about aero, then I guess DA / Ultegra 92 / 81. Also having DA 9270 brifters and having tried 8170 brifters, I'd take the 8170 every time now. Every 9270 I've tried the hood flexes significantly and to varying degrees. Some also creak ... mine do - loads. They're awful IMO. 9170 were very solid, despite similar lightness.

where the hell have you been in Denmark to call them amooth as glass? must have been a newly paved road.

RDY
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

Attermann wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:41 pm
RDY wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:01 pm
StiffWeenies wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:49 pm
RDY wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:25 pm


Indeed, I feel zero discernable difference in power or modulation between GRX Di2 levers (servowave) with standard calipers and DA9270 levers (also servowave) and calipers. Only difference is that GRX Di2 hoods don't feel like a flimsy toy and the shape is way better.
How do you like the GRX Di2 levers for road? I know they're marketed as gravel but I'm curious if the hood shape would be detrimental in an aggressive aero hood position with the levers mounted pointing inwards. The higher pivot point should also make braking easier for those with smaller hands.
If you're not on Swiss / Danish roads (i.e. smooth as glass), then actually having something to hold on to in the aero hood position is majorly benificial. If you spend all your time on the drops and you care about aero, then I guess DA / Ultegra 92 / 81. Also having DA 9270 brifters and having tried 8170 brifters, I'd take the 8170 every time now. Every 9270 I've tried the hood flexes significantly and to varying degrees. Some also creak ... mine do - loads. They're awful IMO. 9170 were very solid, despite similar lightness.

where the hell have you been in Denmark to call them amooth as glass? must have been a newly paved road.
Relative to most of the rest of the world, and EU ...

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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