Rumors Next Generation Campagnolo Road?

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

BenCousins wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:46 am
I think all the talk about shifting efficiency is moot. Nobody choses Campag because it's efficient. It's an emotional choice or habit. Effciency is for Shimano users.
Spares availability, serviceability in general, durability etc is way better than Shimano or Sram all the way down to the bottom of the range.

A Shimano 105 user who breaks their lever in a crash is looking at new levers. A Campag Veloce user in the same predicament simply shells out for a lever body and maybe a set of hoods. That same scenario gets even worse for the Shimano user when the parts are a little older, because they either have to change everthing to the next generation or drop down to a lower level. But the Campag guy is still able to buy spares for his 2011 levers, 12 years after they were produced and 4 years after they ceased production. If you look at premature failures, Campag wins. Hands down.

Campag mechanical shifting is plenty efficent and has been consistently so for years. Shimano's mechanical shifting was the industry standard until their ill-fated adoption of hidden cable with 7900. They regained it somewhat with 9000 and finally got back on par with Campag with 9100. Sram doesn't even figure in the conversation for mechanical shifting. It was agricultral in comparison to Shimano & Campag when it was 10 speed and not much better with 11. Front shifting & Sram were never happy bedfellows.

Campag buyers are generally more informed buyers than Shimano buyers. Emotion may come into it but logic is ahead of emotions.

ParisCarbon
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by ParisCarbon

neeb wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:57 pm
ParisCarbon wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:17 pm
neeb wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:35 pm
Another choice is just to stick with what you have (in my case 11sp EPS) as long as it still works and parts are available either from mainstream channels or the grey / used market.
Agree, owning 2 bikes with 11s EPS, my TT and an SL5, the others with EPS 12, the 11s worries me a little as parts like derailleurs/shifters are very hard to come by.. looking for a backup road 11s V3 dti in case, and I can not for the life of me find one.. is Campagnolo even producing them anymore, alot of places I see say "pre order" but alot of these sites dont even update their stock anymore.. They adapted the V4 battery style to a V3 version, but then never made the V4 road dti backwards compatible to the 11s..my understanding was that the V4 tt dti was backwards compatible to the 11s with a V3 style battery...
Have you tried contacting a Campagnolo approved service centre / Pro Shop? Often they'll be able to order stuff in that isn't in stock anywhere online.
Yes, I do have a request in with a friend for a spare DTI... its funny how alot of online shops still have all these parts listed, but when you goto contact them about availability, you don't even get a reply...

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usr
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by usr

ultimobici wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:40 pm
Spares availability, serviceability in general, durability etc is way better than Shimano or Sram all the way down to the bottom of the range.
Sorry to break your illusions but spares availability only happens when there is unsold stock left over from when parts where still current. Perhaps Campagnolo might stock up I little more than others, but I'm not sure about that at all. Take five-arm 11s front rings for example, that's the time when compact and regular coexisted and Campagnolo wildly underestimated the percentage of buyers preferring compact: 53t is still everywhere, but 50t... not so much.

I do hope that the major consumables (chain, cassettes) would still see production runs when shelves go empty, at one price going per compatibility generation (didon't they introduce a "nameless" 11s chain with Centaur 11?), but that won't be mow than a hope before I see some old-generation part in non-historical packaging.

PS: early 11s levers scarcity (they changed cable pull when they switched to four-arm cranks I think) are entering the stage where people start considering a bike totaled if the lever is lost in a crash

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

usr wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:37 pm
Sorry to break your illusions but spares availability only happens when there is unsold stock left over from when parts where still current. Perhaps Campagnolo might stock up I little more than others, but I'm not sure about that at all. Take five-arm 11s front rings for example, that's the time when compact and regular coexisted and Campagnolo wildly underestimated the percentage of buyers preferring compact: 53t is still everywhere, but 50t... not so much.

I do hope that the major consumables (chain, cassettes) would still see production runs when shelves go empty, at one price going per compatibility generation (didon't they introduce a "nameless" 11s chain with Centaur 11?), but that won't be mow than a hope before I see some old-generation part in non-historical packaging.

PS: early 11s levers scarcity (they changed cable pull when they switched to four-arm cranks I think) are entering the stage where people start considering a bike totaled if the lever is lost in a crash
Not an illusion. Campag still produce EC-CE300 bodies for Veloce. They still produce bodies for the pre 2015 levers too. Chainrings for 5 arm are still produced too. The downside is if you're using first gen Chorus, Record or Super Record. If you are you have to change both rings and the chainring bolts too.

The reason 53t rings are on shelves is they rarely sell. 50 & 52 CT rings outsell them several times over. I used to order 50 & 52 ten at a time every order but only the odd one 53.

But hey, what do I know? Only over a decade of working in a Service Centre!

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by Butcher

What I have found is the price of the spare parts are astonomical. I don't have problem with capitalizm and I do understand making/selling parts comes with stocking shelves, part numbers, and a lot more logistics. This does cost money, especially when the part sits on the shelf for years. It still seems that many of the parts prices are extreme.

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by ultimobici

Butcher wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:28 pm
What I have found is the price of the spare parts are astonomical. I don't have problem with capitalizm and I do understand making/selling parts comes with stocking shelves, part numbers, and a lot more logistics. This does cost money, especially when the part sits on the shelf for years. It still seems that many of the parts prices are extreme.
They have gone up sharply in the last 3 years, I agree. But when a Super Record lever can be repaired for less than €100 when a Dura Ace cannot, it's still good value.

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by Vespasianus

BenCousins wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:46 am
I think all the talk about shifting efficiency is moot. Nobody choses Campag because it's efficient. It's an emotional choice or habit. Effciency is for Shimano users.
Well they should. For mechanical shifting, shimano is 105 nowhere as good as a campag chorus or H11. Shimano 105 is slow, clunkey and just cheap feeling. the most over-rated - media driven -product in the cycling industry.
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by ultimobici

Vespasianus wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:05 pm
BenCousins wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:46 am
I think all the talk about shifting efficiency is moot. Nobody choses Campag because it's efficient. It's an emotional choice or habit. Effciency is for Shimano users.
Well they should. For mechanical shifting, shimano is 105 nowhere as good as a campag chorus or H11. Shimano 105 is slow, clunkey and just cheap feeling. the most over-rated - media driven -product in the cycling industry.
To be fair, you should be comparing Chorus & up to Dura Ace & Ultegra. Both are equal to Campag. 105 equates to Potenza & Centaur. In that case Shimano spanks Campag.

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by BenCousins

Vespasianus wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:05 pm
BenCousins wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:46 am
I think all the talk about shifting efficiency is moot. Nobody choses Campag because it's efficient. It's an emotional choice or habit. Effciency is for Shimano users.
Well they should. For mechanical shifting, shimano is 105 nowhere as good as a campag chorus or H11. Shimano 105 is slow, clunkey and just cheap feeling. the most over-rated - media driven -product in the cycling industry.
Isn't Chorus €1200 and 105 €750?

How does the media 'drive' 105 sales? I'd imagine 95% of them are OEM and sold to people who don't consume the cycling media.

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by blaugrana

Butcher wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:28 pm
What I have found is the price of the spare parts are astonomical. I don't have problem with capitalizm and I do understand making/selling parts comes with stocking shelves, part numbers, and a lot more logistics. This does cost money, especially when the part sits on the shelf for years. It still seems that many of the parts prices are extreme.
This. It's nice to have spares available, but the cost can very often negate the benefit. A few years ago I had to replace a Chorus 11 shifter body, and the cost was almost as much as the discounted street price for a whole new shifter. Then, later I scratched the carbon brake lever on the other side, and buying just the lever was around 100€ or something crazy like that. I kept riding with the scratched lever, of course. Also, none of the internal components of the shifters are available separately (they used to in past generations), so basically you end up replacing almost the whole thing anyway if something breaks.

usr
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by usr

ultimobici wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:23 pm
Not an illusion. Campag still produce EC-CE300 bodies for Veloce. They still produce bodies for the pre 2015 levers too. Chainrings for 5 arm are still produced too.
They really do? Dig out the old molds/matrices/whatever-all-that-manufacturing-stuff-is-called for the occasional reissue batch? Love to stand corrected! All I know is how much I've already paid in tariffs on reimporting polished Athena rings back into the EU, but that might indeed be "special"

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by wilwil

blaugrana wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:29 pm
Butcher wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:28 pm
What I have found is the price of the spare parts are astonomical. I don't have problem with capitalizm and I do understand making/selling parts comes with stocking shelves, part numbers, and a lot more logistics. This does cost money, especially when the part sits on the shelf for years. It still seems that many of the parts prices are extreme.
This. It's nice to have spares available, but the cost can very often negate the benefit. A few years ago I had to replace a Chorus 11 shifter body, and the cost was almost as much as the discounted street price for a whole new shifter. Then, later I scratched the carbon brake lever on the other side, and buying just the lever was around 100€ or something crazy like that. I kept riding with the scratched lever, of course. Also, none of the internal components of the shifters are available separately (they used to in past generations), so basically you end up replacing almost the whole thing anyway if something breaks.
Shifter blades are crazy money. With carbon ones I take them off, sand away the scratches and re laquer. It might mean losing the graphics though. I have 1st generation 11 speed Record that must be 13 years old and all still works perfectly.

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by Nickldn

blaugrana wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:29 pm
Butcher wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:28 pm
What I have found is the price of the spare parts are astonomical. I don't have problem with capitalizm and I do understand making/selling parts comes with stocking shelves, part numbers, and a lot more logistics. This does cost money, especially when the part sits on the shelf for years. It still seems that many of the parts prices are extreme.
This. It's nice to have spares available, but the cost can very often negate the benefit. A few years ago I had to replace a Chorus 11 shifter body, and the cost was almost as much as the discounted street price for a whole new shifter. Then, later I scratched the carbon brake lever on the other side, and buying just the lever was around 100€ or something crazy like that. I kept riding with the scratched lever, of course. Also, none of the internal components of the shifters are available separately (they used to in past generations), so basically you end up replacing almost the whole thing anyway if something breaks.
What is also grating with Campy is the price of consumables. Maximum Smoothness 12s shifter inners/outers are way overpriced and DB pads are expensive too.

I think worldwide sales volumes are much lower than Shimano/SRAM, so each sale needs more profit to be built in.
The fact there are few, or no aftermarket alternatives also keeps the price of Campy consumables high.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

blaugrana wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:29 pm
This. It's nice to have spares available, but the cost can very often negate the benefit. A few years ago I had to replace a Chorus 11 shifter body, and the cost was almost as much as the discounted street price for a whole new shifter. Then, later I scratched the carbon brake lever on the other side, and buying just the lever was around 100€ or something crazy like that. I kept riding with the scratched lever, of course. Also, none of the internal components of the shifters are available separately (they used to in past generations), so basically you end up replacing almost the whole thing anyway if something breaks.
Campag stopped making the internals serviceable almost a decade ago.

As for the pricing, Campag has always been heavily discounted online and before. The fact that you were able to get a sinle lever that cheap is both evidence of that as well as extremely fortuitous. The incidence of splitting lever sets up is very rare. While Campag do list single levers, no dstibutor I have ever encountered lists them.

Anyone holding stock of the spares has either had to order it in direct in bulk or go through the importer/distributor. I can tell you the pricing for ordering direct ain't cheap and isn't carriage free, no matter how much you order. You also have to order so far in advance you are shelling out a lot of money. Why on earth should you then knock it out cheap?

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

usr wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:39 pm
ultimobici wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:23 pm
Not an illusion. Campag still produce EC-CE300 bodies for Veloce. They still produce bodies for the pre 2015 levers too. Chainrings for 5 arm are still produced too.
They really do? Dig out the old molds/matrices/whatever-all-that-manufacturing-stuff-is-called for the occasional reissue batch? Love to stand corrected! All I know is how much I've already paid in tariffs on reimporting polished Athena rings back into the EU, but that might indeed be "special"
Not a case of digging out old molds etc, they're a stock spare for Veloce & Centaur 10 speed levers. As of now Campag have 30 on the shelf in Vicenza and Condor have more than that in stock.

As for chainrings, Campag have stock of all three iterations of outer rings. Just bear in mind they use the code for the shortlived Comp crankset, FC-CO050/CO052/CO053. Again Condor have 50 & 52 in stock.

Athena rings are hard to find. I can see that there is ONE silver 50T showing in stock at Campag.

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