Rumors Next Generation Campagnolo Road?

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XCProMD
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by XCProMD

MarkMcM wrote:
graeme_f_k wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:51 am
Lower efficiency and faster wear pre-supposes no change in materials or design. We've been here a zillion times before, I am old and grey enough to remember the nay-sayers on Ultra 7 vs Standard width 7s blocks and chains. And, for that matter, 12T vs 13t, then 11T vs 12T ...
Lower efficiency of smaller sprockets is well known, regardless of material (if only due to increased vibration from chordal action). As you say, wear rate depends on material and design - but to say that these sprockets won't wear any faster is to pre-suppose that the same material and designs can't be applied to larger sprockets and chainrings. All things being equal, smaller sprockets and chainrings do wear faster.

However, I am absolutely certain that at least the chain will wear faster with these smaller sprocket and chainrings, since the same chain can be used with the originally sized 12spd sprockets and chainrings.

One might be able to argue that any drop in efficiency or increase in wear is insignificant. But to argue that they don't exist is ingenuous.
Want you are saying about wear goes against some of the most basic principles of tribology. Wear is not linear or absolute. Much more complicated than that.


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ParisCarbon
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by ParisCarbon

MarkMcM wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:24 pm
ParisCarbon wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:52 pm
Bobbyc123 wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:05 pm
I find it so strange that the new groupset has launched in the wild and you see the pros using it on tv but they don't have a suitable chainset ready for it.
No powermeter though for it yet... essentially left the team with no choice... but its good to see the standard SRM/P2Max is on there.... dunno how much Ill use a 53X10 cog on the flat... thats some wicked into the wind hill climb sim gear :P
That still doesn't explain the larger chainrings/cassette. One of the SR WRL chainring options is 50/34, and there were already 50/34 chainrings that fit that same power meter.
Probably because they are pros and don't want a 50/34 setup.. Looking at the Jumbo SRAM setups, besides Roglics adventure at the Giro, they all seem to be running 53+ size.. isnt the new Dura Ace a 54?
Is the new crank the same BCD as the last gen EPS?

simbikotic
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by simbikotic

usr wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:29 am
simbikotic wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:56 pm
It seems that there are some people on this forum with some inside knowledge of the development process at Campy (e.g. @graeme_f_k - thanks for sharing your knowledge btw). For them, I have a burning question: I am super curious about the 12s Vs 13s descision. 13s must have been on-the-table during SRW development, but ultimately they decided to go 12s. Why?

Not to imply that one choice is right/wrong - I just want to understand the tradeoffs. I ride Ekar 13s and the only (minor) complaint I have is that I spend more time doing cable adjustment than on 12s. However, with electronic this problem should go away?
As far as I know (I'm just reiterating something read here) the Ekar big cog is so far left that it would not have enough spoke clearance with anything smaller than 36. And the small cog is far enough right to cause a potential clearance problem with the frame if it was the size you'd want in a "very big rings" setup matching the huge left cog for stronger riders.

If this is true (I'm not sure, but it sounds plausible to my ears) then the Ekar chain geometry would be more like a "12.5 speed" that happens to be able to do 13 in a wide range 1x setup, but not a universal 13 speed that would be capable of serving e.g. a super narrow 12-25 corncob.
Gotcha. That makes a great deal of sense and gives me the intuition I was scratching around for. Thanks!

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

ParisCarbon wrote:
MarkMcM wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:24 pm
ParisCarbon wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:52 pm
Bobbyc123 wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 6:05 pm
I find it so strange that the new groupset has launched in the wild and you see the pros using it on tv but they don't have a suitable chainset ready for it.
No powermeter though for it yet... essentially left the team with no choice... but its good to see the standard SRM/P2Max is on there.... dunno how much Ill use a 53X10 cog on the flat... thats some wicked into the wind hill climb sim gear :P
That still doesn't explain the larger chainrings/cassette. One of the SR WRL chainring options is 50/34, and there were already 50/34 chainrings that fit that same power meter.
Probably because they are pros and don't want a 50/34 setup.. Looking at the Jumbo SRAM setups, besides Roglics adventure at the Giro, they all seem to be running 53+ size.. isnt the new Dura Ace a 54?
Is the new crank the same BCD as the last gen EPS?
Pretty sure the new chainrings use the same BCD as Chorus 12. As such there is not any PM spider that will take WRL rings yet.


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ferrarista
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by ferrarista

ultimobici wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:50 am

Pretty sure the new chainrings use the same BCD as Chorus 12. As such there is not any PM spider that will take WRL rings yet.

Chorus 12 is 96mm bcd for small chainring and 123mm bcd for big chainring.

New Super Record WRL is 88mm for small chainring and 121mm for big chainring.
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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

ferrarista wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:50 am

Pretty sure the new chainrings use the same BCD as Chorus 12. As such there is not any PM spider that will take WRL rings yet.

Chorus 12 is 96mm bcd for small chainring and 123mm bcd for big chainring.

New Super Record WRL is 88mm for small chainring and 121mm for big chainring.
Thanks for the info.


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HiFi
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Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2023 5:51 pm

by HiFi

New cranks look pretty shiny out of the box:
https://ciclimattio.com/en/p/campagnolo ... 0mm-45-29t

rollinslow
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Location: New York

by rollinslow

Does anyone know when we are going to see the new groupset in the US? None of my go-to retailers including major carriers of Campy have it or any information.
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Super Record 12
Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12
Kestrel RT700 (2008)-Dura Ace 9000
Mosaic GT-1 (2020)-SRAM Red viewtopic.php?f=10&t=174523

RTW
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by RTW

HiFi wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:26 pm
New cranks look pretty shiny out of the box:
https://ciclimattio.com/en/p/campagnolo ... 0mm-45-29t
Is this your shop?

HiFi
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by HiFi

Sorry, no.

ParisCarbon
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Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

rollinslow wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:52 pm
Does anyone know when we are going to see the new groupset in the US? None of my go-to retailers including major carriers of Campy have it or any information.
My friend (Canada) has a group on order.. he was told mid July, possibly a little earlier...

rollinslow
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by rollinslow

I officially ordered the new groupset here in the US. Campy direct from the rep said September.

I went 45/29, 11-32 cassette. Will let you know if it works!
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Super Record 12
Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12
Kestrel RT700 (2008)-Dura Ace 9000
Mosaic GT-1 (2020)-SRAM Red viewtopic.php?f=10&t=174523

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

ParisCarbon wrote:
rollinslow wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:52 pm
Does anyone know when we are going to see the new groupset in the US? None of my go-to retailers including major carriers of Campy have it or any information.
My friend (Canada) has a group on order.. he was told mid July, possibly a little earlier...
Lol! I doubt that’ll be the case. ETA to distributors was supposed to be months in NA. Unless he ordered it months ago he’ll have a long wait.


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XCProMD
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by XCProMD

First win for the new groupset at Tour de Suisse?


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ParisCarbon
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Location: Winnipeg Canada

by ParisCarbon

ultimobici wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2023 12:27 pm
ParisCarbon wrote:
rollinslow wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 12:52 pm
Does anyone know when we are going to see the new groupset in the US? None of my go-to retailers including major carriers of Campy have it or any information.
My friend (Canada) has a group on order.. he was told mid July, possibly a little earlier...
Lol! I doubt that’ll be the case. ETA to distributors was supposed to be months in NA. Unless he ordered it months ago he’ll have a long wait.


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I dunno.. he's a shop owner with alot of friends on the import side...

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