Rumors Next Generation Campagnolo Road?
Moderator: robbosmans
I agree. A Veblen product is fine for something static and timeless that might even appreciate in value. It doesn't really work for mechanical consumer goods with technology that gets superseded.
I haven't read a glowing review in the media which is rare these days and consumer reaction is luke warm at best. Can't imagine too many high fives in Vicenza this morning considering the time and effort that will have been invested. It sounds like I am twisting the knife but I am really disappointed. As a potential consumer and long time Campagnolo fan I really want to like this product but can't see a compelling reason not to buy a competitor. God help them in the battle for less loyal consumers!!!!
I haven't read a glowing review in the media which is rare these days and consumer reaction is luke warm at best. Can't imagine too many high fives in Vicenza this morning considering the time and effort that will have been invested. It sounds like I am twisting the knife but I am really disappointed. As a potential consumer and long time Campagnolo fan I really want to like this product but can't see a compelling reason not to buy a competitor. God help them in the battle for less loyal consumers!!!!
First thought on seeing the new groupset and pricing... Where are all the EPS12 deals?
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Same. I really want to like this. If push come to shove, I would still be able to afford it IF it has something for me. I can even go as far as just to be "different". But this isn't it. If they try to be expensive for the sake of it, to achieve veblen goods status, I think it fails miserably. There's no emotional connection. There's nothing special about it. Hopefully they do something better with the Record/ Chorus - if those ever going to come out at all.
I genuinely think that this illustrates the worst problems with the patent system at present. Sram didn't invent rechargeable batteries, they didn't invent removable batteries, the idea that they can keep for themselves the use of those pre-existing batteries on an entire category of product is just bonkers.TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:37 pmClever, by adding external charging contacts to the derailleur batteries and making each one unique, Campy can likely claim they are permanently attached, skirting SRAM”s removable battery patent.
The suggestion from Campag that Sram have managed to patent the idea of not designing two different batteries for two different units is even worse.
I think it has been true since the introduction of Shimano axle and the born of SRAM GxP? I concur, the patent game is sometimes going too far and kudos to SRAM for pioneering the wireless market.
And back to the WRL. If Campy has to do a new groupset, I'd rather see a mechanical 2x13... it's sad to see Campy attempting such a messy wireless...
Last edited by jlok on Wed May 31, 2023 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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HD video review that gives a closer view of the components. The shifters are smaller than EPS and DA Di2. The LED on the rear mech is a flashing small Campag logo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaaTmCYZE08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaaTmCYZE08
So true. The way patents are applied seems to speak more directly to how well lawyered you are as to your level of innovation. Think about the ubiquity of some innovation that if they patented as ridiculously as these electro-groupsets are, how stifled the world of cyling would be; electronic shifting (Mavic), clipless pedals (Look), quick-release (Campag), etc...Karvalo wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:56 amI genuinely think that this illustrates the worst problems with the patent system at present. Sram didn't invent rechargeable batteries, they didn't invent removable batteries, the idea that they can keep for themselves the use of those pre-existing batteries on an entire category of product is just bonkers.
The suggestion from Campag that Sram have managed to patent the idea of not designing two different batteries for two different units is even worse.
Last edited by Dov on Wed May 31, 2023 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Brooklyn Gangsta V4 with DXR
Cannondale CAAD 10 Track
Cielo Classic Sportif U8000
Cinelli Supercorsa DA9000
Colnago C64 R12
Concorde DA7800
DeRosa Nuovo Classico SR12
Eddy Mercks Corsa Extra Ch12
Felt F1 DA9050
Trek L500
Long time supporter of Rapha
Strava
Cannondale CAAD 10 Track
Cielo Classic Sportif U8000
Cinelli Supercorsa DA9000
Colnago C64 R12
Concorde DA7800
DeRosa Nuovo Classico SR12
Eddy Mercks Corsa Extra Ch12
Felt F1 DA9050
Trek L500
Long time supporter of Rapha
Strava
I heard in an interview with a guy from Shimano one time that Dura-Ace di2 basically pays for the R&D, so Ultegra can be offered at basically the same groupset for a much cheaper price. Campag would we wise to adopt this model.
My whole last bike "only" cost £5k, and that's all the bike I need. I can afford more, but I actually like being wealthy enough to not care about status symbols. I don't want to ride something super-flashy, in the same way that I don't want to wear an expensive metal-cog watch or own a Ferrai. It might be a British thing - people who need to know will know, no need to broadcast it. Most wealthy people I know, if you saw them in the street, would not stand out as being very wealthy. It would feel weird riding a bike that everyone knows is "the most expensive" whereas Dura Ace is common enough that nobody really cares if you ride it.
I've owned mechanical 11s super record, 11s mechanical DA, 11s SRAM red, 12s Ultegra di2. The Super Record was fine, but that list was in order of least fun to most fun to ride.
My whole last bike "only" cost £5k, and that's all the bike I need. I can afford more, but I actually like being wealthy enough to not care about status symbols. I don't want to ride something super-flashy, in the same way that I don't want to wear an expensive metal-cog watch or own a Ferrai. It might be a British thing - people who need to know will know, no need to broadcast it. Most wealthy people I know, if you saw them in the street, would not stand out as being very wealthy. It would feel weird riding a bike that everyone knows is "the most expensive" whereas Dura Ace is common enough that nobody really cares if you ride it.
I've owned mechanical 11s super record, 11s mechanical DA, 11s SRAM red, 12s Ultegra di2. The Super Record was fine, but that list was in order of least fun to most fun to ride.
Official pricing up: https://www.chickencyclekit.co.uk/shop/brand/campagnolo
£313.99 RRP Cassettes
I wonder if there'll be lower tier offerings later on so you don't need to fork out on SR wearable parts so often.
£313.99 RRP Cassettes
I wonder if there'll be lower tier offerings later on so you don't need to fork out on SR wearable parts so often.
no, it was not a production battery, prototype of the Dura-Ace 7970 on the Gerolsteiner team's bike, detachable battery in the front derailleur... it was said that the levers (they had a small liquid crystal display or LCD) were cableless (this is not i know for sure...ultimobici wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 7:18 amAre you referring to the original Di2 battery? I’m pretty sure that was a production item. You can still use it with 11 speed Di2.Ritxis wrote:Many years before Sram had its eTap, Shimano already had Di2 prototypes in competition with a removable battery... Shimano still preferred to continue with cables rather than knowing their reasons, I don't think it's because of Sram patents... maybe reliability? that the Di2 is not just shifters/shifts and is thinking further(e-bikes) not just Road/MTB/gravel.......TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 5:49 amRitxis wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 5:45 am
about the batteries and patents...I don't understand how they can be made removable in both gears but not interchangeable??? and also how you can prevent an electrical/electronic device from having a power source of the same brand......I would understand that a patent limits you to a specific battery and its anchoring system....but to this from Campagnolo.....
I don’t quite understand it either, but Shimano, FSA, Campagnolo and WheelTop have all been affected.
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SRAMpagnolo
I was riding my AXS equipped bike last night, and trying to think of a reason why anyone would buy this new group, over the AXS group. I've read this thread too, and aside from 'cassette / gear options' I cannot find a reason. Is it light weight?
I am disappointed for Campagnolo.
I wonder if the batteries will fit front to rear with a small modification (or 3d printed 3rd party battery case)....? It seems like something you could design for, but only if you are prepared to take a file to the battery casing. Then you let that mod slip to some pro mechanics. Then you have circumnavigated the patent, and still have the product advantage that is otherwise lost.
I don't understand what their industrial design direction is. Those talking of heritage and comparing them to Ferarri seem to miss the point that Ferarri make objectively attractive looking vehicles, vehicles that are coveted / known even those who know nothing about the engine or the performance. I don't see this in this new group. I don't see the design language being carried through (other than the holes on the lever blades).
I was riding my AXS equipped bike last night, and trying to think of a reason why anyone would buy this new group, over the AXS group. I've read this thread too, and aside from 'cassette / gear options' I cannot find a reason. Is it light weight?
I am disappointed for Campagnolo.
I wonder if the batteries will fit front to rear with a small modification (or 3d printed 3rd party battery case)....? It seems like something you could design for, but only if you are prepared to take a file to the battery casing. Then you let that mod slip to some pro mechanics. Then you have circumnavigated the patent, and still have the product advantage that is otherwise lost.
I don't understand what their industrial design direction is. Those talking of heritage and comparing them to Ferarri seem to miss the point that Ferarri make objectively attractive looking vehicles, vehicles that are coveted / known even those who know nothing about the engine or the performance. I don't see this in this new group. I don't see the design language being carried through (other than the holes on the lever blades).