The Time Bicycles Thread -- Time Frames, Bikes, & Hardware Components After Sale To Cardinal Cycling Group

[inertianinja]

Hi guys, hope any of you can provide me some help on ADHX frame sizing and the DCR headset's stack height. I'm about 186cm with long legs (92.5cm inseam) and also I'm not blessed with much flexibility which puts a strain on my stack and reach. My Cervelo S3 (stack/reach is 605/395) is perfect slammed, which suits my ideal stack at around 612mm.

Looking at Time's geometry table this brings me to an XL frame size (601/397). All tube lengths are comparable to the S3's, however I'm worried that the Deda (S-)DCR headset adds too much stack height. From what I gathered here, a mandatory headset top cover seems to add ~11mm and a Deda Alanera cockpit requires another 5mm spacer, which would bring the total to about 601+11+5 = 617mm(?)



Sizing down usually isn't an option either. My saddleheight is about 81cm. With a 53cm seattube it would show more seatpost than frame which looks just as ridiculous as having spacers. Ideally I prefer to slam the larger frame.

Any tips/final advice on the Deda headset would be much appreciated. Another option might be to forgo the Deda Alanera in favor of the new Superbox DCX v2 stem that does not require an additional 5mm spacer(?) I'm perfectly happy with a seperate bar and stem.

If you use the updated Deda Superbox Stem or the Alanera 1-piece bar/stem, you will use a different headset top cover that comes with them. That cover measures at 9mm stack height. If you want to run a slammed stem then that's all you need. Note, you don't use the 11mm (or the extra 5mm) cover that comes with the headset if you run the Superbox or Alanera. Those covers are provided so you can run a non-internally routed stem from any other manufacturer. Tons of optionality!

Also, keep in mind the stem stack height of the Superbox and Alanera if you go that route. They're a little different from each other. It's all a game of millimeters.

Hope that helps!

I have the current Alanera, it actually requires both the 9mm top cap and a 5mm "aero spacer."

See page 21 of the manual https://dedaelementi.com/pub/media/cata ... l-en_1.pdf

[odonnebj]

Oh man!! Looking at the manual I'm surprised it's actually needed given the profile of it looks the same as the 56mm headset cover. I was told wrong about that. My apologies!! I know for a fact the Superbox doesn't need it. Thank you for the correction!

[Ypuh]

Thank you both! That's the info I needed

I'm going with the fully integrated Superbox setup, not Alanera cockpit. Time also pointed out that the new Superbox version doesn't require a mandatory spacer and brake hoses can go directly from the stem into frame with only the included top cover.

That should keep stack at or under the desired 612mm (framestack = 601 + topcover 9mm). Since it's going to be my bad road/all day bike I wouldn't mind it being slightly higher, but fortunately that doesn't appear to be necessary. I'll be keeping my Cervelo for fast club rides and cyclo's.

[steveadore]

What's the "best" (i.e. most reliable long term & easy to maintain, possibly remove and replace) bottom bracket for 24mm Shimano HTII cranks used in Time frames with BB386Evo?

My first choice would be a one-piece alloy insert (e.g. Hambini or BBInfinite), but I have concerns, apart from the price. If I install these with retaining compound as recommended, it might be tricky to remove them (as it may be inevitable in case I need to access the inner der. cable grommet later). Sure, Hambini even sells removal tools, but then there's the hassle of removing the dried Loctite etc. and I'm just not too comfortable with repeatedly pressing in and out a massive alloy tube. The second issue I'm concerned about is galvanic corrosion between the alloy and the carbon shell, not to mention the different thermal coefficients of the two materials.

My other choice, therefore, would be either a screw-together 2 piece BB (e.g. Wheels Mfg or Token) or just simple pressfit cups (e.g. Kogel, C-Bear, Hawk). Again, I don't really like the idea of rotating an alloy tube in the carbon sheel during installation (which is required during the installation of the screw-together BB units). Token looks better on paper, at least, as it is covered in nylon, so it might be less harsh on the shell during installation. It also has a 25>24mm plastic reducer top hat for the BB386-Shimano version, so there's no direct metal-on-metal contact between the bearing inner race and the crank axle. But I haven't really been able to find too many long-term detailed reviews of the Token.

As for the simple pressfit cups, Kogel is way too expensive and I don't need ceramic. C-Bear is cheaper but I've read mixed reviews. Hawk looks interesting but again, not many detailed reviews online. And unlike one-piece or srew-together BBs, these are just two PF cups. Time frames are reputed to have very good tolerances, alignment and concentricity, but the idea of just pressing in 2 cups is technologically inferior, I guess. Or is that not a real issue with the Time given its superior quality? But then there are the same issues of alloy-carbon contact as with the one-piece alloy inserts mentioned above.

[openwheelracing]

Analysis paralysis. They are all good options.

[gmarsden]

I tried the Token in my ADHX, it was a very loose fit by about 6 thou., so I shimmed it with a wrap of Kapton tape. I contacted the manufacturer about the poor fit, they recommended I buy there oversize version but I didn't persue it.

I then went with a Wheels Mfg. version that was also undersize, by about 4 thou, which should be okay with loctite retaining compound, even though Wheels Mfg doesn't recommend it.

Because they were both a loose fit, niether caused any wear to the frame as they screwed in. My frame BB opening is round and measures 46mm as per the spec.

[steveadore]

I tried the Token in my ADHX, it was a very loose fit by about 6 thou., so I shimmed it with a wrap of Kapton tape. I contacted the manufacturer about the poor fit, they recommended I buy there oversize version but I didn't persue it.

I then went with a Wheels Mfg. version that was also undersize, by about 4 thou, which should be okay with loctite retaining compound, even though Wheels Mfg doesn't recommend it.

Because they were both a loose fit, niether caused any wear to the frame as they screwed in. My frame BB opening is round and measures 46mm as per the spec.

Thanks! The Token story is a bit disappointing. I wonder if their regular version is designed for undersized shells. But then the oversized version might be too tight of a fit.

And I agree about retaining compound not being the best idea with this design.

So what did you end up with? Or are you still using the Wheels?

[steveadore]

Analysis paralysis. They are all good options.

Not quite, see Gmarsden's response

[wheelsONfire]

Hi guys, hope any of you can provide me some help on ADHX frame sizing and the DCR headset's stack height. I'm about 186cm with long legs (92.5cm inseam) and also I'm not blessed with much flexibility which puts a strain on my stack and reach. My Cervelo S3 (stack/reach is 605/395) is perfect slammed, which suits my ideal stack at around 612mm.

Looking at Time's geometry table this brings me to an XL frame size (601/397). All tube lengths are comparable to the S3's, however I'm worried that the Deda (S-)DCR headset adds too much stack height. From what I gathered here, a mandatory headset top cover seems to add ~11mm and a Deda Alanera cockpit requires another 5mm spacer, which would bring the total to about 601+11+5 = 617mm(?)



Sizing down usually isn't an option either. My saddleheight is about 81cm. With a 53cm seattube it would show more seatpost than frame which looks just as ridiculous as having spacers. Ideally I prefer to slam the larger frame.

Any tips/final advice on the Deda headset would be much appreciated. Another option might be to forgo the Deda Alanera in favor of the new Superbox DCX v2 stem that does not require an additional 5mm spacer(?) I'm perfectly happy with a seperate bar and stem.

If you use the updated Deda Superbox Stem or the Alanera 1-piece bar/stem, you will use a different headset top cover that comes with them. That cover measures at 9mm stack height. If you want to run a slammed stem then that's all you need. Note, you don't use the 11mm (or the extra 5mm) cover that comes with the headset if you run the Superbox or Alanera. Those covers are provided so you can run a non-internally routed stem from any other manufacturer. Tons of optionality!

Also, keep in mind the stem stack height of the Superbox and Alanera if you go that route. They're a little different from each other. It's all a game of millimeters.

Hope that helps!

I have the current Alanera, it actually requires both the 9mm top cap and a 5mm "aero spacer."

See page 21 of the manual https://dedaelementi.com/pub/media/cata ... l-en_1.pdf

My bike have 58.3mm stack with headset top cap, i use a -17 degree stem. But i could use a lower stem.
This stem configuration is boosting the stack to 57.4mm for a medium model (56.0mm stack is spec)!
This would require using a slacker stem than a -6 degree version.
To even achieve same stack as i currently have, would require a -13 stem on the time bike.
So that would mean i would need to find a -17 degree stem (there are no options otherwise) suiting the cable routing.

[gmarsden]

I am still using the Wheels Mfg BB but have talked with Hambini and he assures me his will measure 46mm to 46.01mm depending on the temperature. It's a lot of money though, especially in Canadian dollars.

[steveadore]

I am still using the Wheels Mfg BB but have talked with Hambini and he assures me his will measure 46mm to 46.01mm depending on the temperature. It's a lot of money though, especially in Canadian dollars.

Thanks. Isn't 46.01mm a bit too much? I recall some discussion (in fact, it must have been in the comments under one of his videos) where someone claiming to work for Henkel (the manufacturer of Loctite) argued that it's not a good idea to use an alloy pressfit sleeve inside a carbon shell due to the different thermal coefficients (i.e. the alloy's expansion might put undue stress on the carbon shell surrounding it).

[Ypuh]

My bike have 58.3mm stack with headset top cap, i use a -17 degree stem. But i could use a lower stem.
This stem configuration is boosting the stack to 57.4mm for a medium model (56.0mm stack is spec)!
This would require using a slacker stem than a -6 degree version.
To even achieve same stack as i currently have, would require a -13 stem on the time bike.
So that would mean i would need to find a -17 degree stem (there are no options otherwise) suiting the cable routing.

The ADH(X) frames are pretty tall in comparison with most other frames, but more aggresively than the 'endurance' geometries. It's comparable with Cervelo, the Canyon Endurace series, some Cannondales and Giant Defy. Still these frames are less tall than most dedicated 'comfort' frames such as the Specialized Roubaix, Cannondale Synapse, BMC Roadmachine etc. I'm not sure if Time would be the best choice if you're inclined to ride with a -17 degree stem. That indicates you're looking more towards the racy geometry frames, i.e; Tarmac SL-7, Giant Propel, Wilier Zero etc.

The Superbox stem is -8 degrees and the v2 doesn't require a 5mm spacer (the Alanera cockpit does). Deda also has a 'Vinci' stem that's -17 degrees and allows for internal cable routing. Those are the only two DCR stem options that fully integrate with this headset. Possibly something from FSA or a dedicated brand too, but you have to source a suiteable top cover. https://dedaelementi.com/vinci-stem

Anyway, I made my order for a Time ADHX frameset. Allowing to run the Deda Superbox stem without spacers settles it for me. I don't care too much for weight on this frame, but do want to keep the option of a perfect fit. This combination should add 'only' +9mm to the frame stack in a slammed configuration which works for my long legs and low flexibility.

What's the "best" (i.e. most reliable long term & easy to maintain, possibly remove and replace) bottom bracket for 24mm Shimano HTII cranks used in Time frames with BB386Evo?

This is my next challenge. I run a Hambini on my Cervelo and was planning to do the same on my new Time. However cost went up considerably; €335 for a DUB version and that's still without shipping and VAT. A whopping 4 times more expensive as to what I paid a few years ago. I don't plan on sponsoring the British economy that much and might just go with a BBInfinite at half the cost.

I don't see any reason to ever take out the BB shell? Bearing changes are a breeze and I plan on running Etap.

[steveadore]

What's the "best" (i.e. most reliable long term & easy to maintain, possibly remove and replace) bottom bracket for 24mm Shimano HTII cranks used in Time frames with BB386Evo?

This is my next challenge. I run a Hambini on my Cervelo and was planning to do the same on my new Time. However cost went up considerably; €335 for a DUB version and that's still without shipping and VAT. A whopping 4 times more expensive as to what I paid a few years ago. I don't plan on sponsoring the British economy that much and might just go with a BBInfinite at half the cost.

I don't see any reason to ever take out the BB shell? Bearing changes are a breeze and I plan on running Etap.

Where can you get the BBInfinite for half the cost? I'm also in the EU, so ordering from the UK is a bit of a hassle, but as far as I know BBInfinite also incurs import costs if you order directly from the US.

[Ypuh]

Where can you get the BBInfinite for half the cost? I'm also in the EU, so ordering from the UK is a bit of a hassle, but as far as I know BBInfinite also incurs import costs if you order directly from the US.

Directly from BBinfinite.com. If you select the steel bearings over the Cermic ones, the prices drops significantly. I've only checked out DUB which was $200, which translates to about €175 without tax and shipping which adds another €30 plus 21% (+/- €250). The Hambini is 287GBP which translates to about €335 without tax and shipping (total +/- €425).

I like Hambini, but do not €175 like him.

If you can find any EU parties that sell one of these, please report!

[Lakal]

There is also Ascent Bikes: https://www.ascent-bikes.com/collection ... n-bb-bb386