Campagnolo Super Record EPS 12s Chain Slap Issue

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MrCurrieinahurry
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by MrCurrieinahurry

Hey guys for u info from a trusted source.
Hi Adam,

Something quite evident from the video on this thread is that the upper jockey wheel is quite far away from the cassette, this decreases the tension in the chain, allowing for excess slack when transitioning from load to release.

It is also worth pointing out that the only differences between a Pro’s WTO and what is bought in the shop are the bearings used; the hub shell bearings are CULT, not USB and the freehub body bearings are double sealed as opposed to single sealed (this is so they can be jet washed after each stage). The last of these modifications have the effect of increasing freehub rotation friction, but with correct assembly and position of the RD, none of the teams suffer this chain slap happening.

Having spoken to my colleague individually, each have come to the decision that it is incorrect assembly that is causing this from happening.

With correct assembly of your V4 12 speed group, the system should be flawless.
I hope this alleviates your concerns for the Super Record 12 speed EPS
Formerly known as Curryinahurry

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Cycomanic
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:10 pm

by Cycomanic

Don't want to comment on the other stuff but I'm amazed how everyone raves about Froome's "candid" opinion, just because he mildly criticised disc brakes (which doesn't even hurt his sponsor). These sort of criticisms are always added tovideos like that to make it not too obvious that it's an advertisement. Apart from the bit about disc brakes it was just the usual "great material" fluff.

Watch this a candid opinion: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsk3zAZyLaQ

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tomato
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Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:37 pm

by tomato

Cycomanic wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:57 pm
Don't want to comment on the other stuff but I'm amazed how everyone raves about Froome's "candid" opinion ...
Posted in the wrong thread you have, young padwan.

maxim809
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Posts: 889
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:28 am

by maxim809

MrCurrieinahurry wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:41 pm
Hey guys for u info from a trusted source.
Hi Adam,

Something quite evident from the video on this thread is that the upper jockey wheel is quite far away from the cassette, this decreases the tension in the chain, allowing for excess slack when transitioning from load to release.

It is also worth pointing out that the only differences between a Pro’s WTO and what is bought in the shop are the bearings used; the hub shell bearings are CULT, not USB and the freehub body bearings are double sealed as opposed to single sealed (this is so they can be jet washed after each stage). The last of these modifications have the effect of increasing freehub rotation friction, but with correct assembly and position of the RD, none of the teams suffer this chain slap happening.

Having spoken to my colleague individually, each have come to the decision that it is incorrect assembly that is causing this from happening.

With correct assembly of your V4 12 speed group, the system should be flawless.
I hope this alleviates your concerns for the Super Record 12 speed EPS
Very cool, thanks for this!

@Cycomanic, yes you could possibly be right and fair take. At the end of the day it is all speculation from each one of us on the true motives behind any action. Which is impossible to prove even in a court of law. If we could all recognize this and leave it at that, many crazy internet debates would chill before they go off in the weeds. Mollema's reaction never gets old.

maxim809
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by maxim809

Cycomanic wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:57 pm
Don't want to comment on the other stuff but I'm amazed how everyone raves about Froome's "candid" opinion, just because he mildly criticised disc brakes (which doesn't even hurt his sponsor). These sort of criticisms are always added tovideos like that to make it not too obvious that it's an advertisement. Apart from the bit about disc brakes it was just the usual "great material" fluff.

Watch this a candid opinion: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsk3zAZyLaQ

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk
Actually, Cyco, now you got me thinking so I'm gonna bend my rules a bit and I posted my thoughts that build off of yours here:
viewtopic.php?p=1650638#p1650638

tl;dr, I'm now a full-time conspiracy theorist and Froome was planted with a script to obsolete current gen disc and make way for next-gen Di2.

XCProMD
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Location: Cantabria

by XCProMD

tomato wrote:
XCProMD wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:05 pm
As you all know, a perfect spring adds a constant tension throughout its travel. However, a torsion could spring like this will vary its diameter which in run will result in a tension diagram that is different to a flat straight line. It’s in the most relaxed positions (smaller cogs) where you want your spring to take up the slack the angular I eterna of the cassette creates on the chain. As it comes out of the factory the tension can be insufficient, as apparently is your case.
No, it doesn't.
Thanks for reading. Can you please share your experience with perfect springs and enlighten me?


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tomato
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:37 pm

by tomato

XCProMD wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:29 pm
tomato wrote:
XCProMD wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:05 pm
As you all know, a perfect spring adds a constant tension throughout its travel. However, a torsion could spring like this will vary its diameter which in run will result in a tension diagram that is different to a flat straight line. It’s in the most relaxed positions (smaller cogs) where you want your spring to take up the slack the angular I eterna of the cassette creates on the chain. As it comes out of the factory the tension can be insufficient, as apparently is your case.
No, it doesn't.
Thanks for reading. Can you please share your experience with perfect springs and enlighten me?
Hooke's Law:
F = - kx

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corky
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by corky

MrCurrieinahurry wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:41 pm
Hey guys for u info from a trusted source.
Hi Adam,

Something quite evident from the video on this thread is that the upper jockey wheel is quite far away from the cassette, this decreases the tension in the chain, allowing for excess slack when transitioning from load to release.

I pointed this out earlier, b-screw adjusts this gap. Check it's setting against the manual.

XCProMD
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:25 am
Location: Cantabria

by XCProMD

tomato wrote:
XCProMD wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:29 pm
tomato wrote:
XCProMD wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:05 pm
As you all know, a perfect spring adds a constant tension throughout its travel. However, a torsion could spring like this will vary its diameter which in run will result in a tension diagram that is different to a flat straight line. It’s in the most relaxed positions (smaller cogs) where you want your spring to take up the slack the angular I eterna of the cassette creates on the chain. As it comes out of the factory the tension can be insufficient, as apparently is your case.
No, it doesn't.
Thanks for reading. Can you please share your experience with perfect springs and enlighten me?
Hooke's Law:
F = - kx
That’s exactly what I meant.


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tomato
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:37 pm

by tomato

XCProMD wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:49 pm
tomato wrote:
XCProMD wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:29 pm
tomato wrote: No, it doesn't.
Thanks for reading. Can you please share your experience with perfect springs and enlighten me?
Hooke's Law:
F = - kx
That’s exactly what I meant.
Hooke's Law clearly indicates a spring does not produce "constant tension throughout it's travel" as you stated.

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

Sorry you're so offended by my post but it's a forum and that's what we do, share our opinion.

Not every system is perfect for every person. Your'e surprised that no one mentions this 'flaw' but I'm not, because most people do not ride like this. Campagnolo's response seems to be spot on. Since this is not a huge problem for 99.9% of the riders it's hard to spend a lot of R&D time/money on it. It's probably a huge problem for you, but for the rest of the world, it's not. It's great for you to share your issue so others can determine if the system would work for them.

I surely would love for them to see a tighter cassette for the 12 speed systems. There are more people wanting that.

With today's cancel culture at full steam, do you think a pro would risk their job to complain about something as small as this?

Visqu
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Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:19 pm

by Visqu

corky wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:02 pm
MrCurrieinahurry wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:41 pm
Hey guys for u info from a trusted source.
Hi Adam,

Something quite evident from the video on this thread is that the upper jockey wheel is quite far away from the cassette, this decreases the tension in the chain, allowing for excess slack when transitioning from load to release.

I pointed this out earlier, b-screw adjusts this gap. Check it's setting against the manual.
I believe the correct approach, as already suggested by bm0p700f, would be to use a combination of B- and H-screw to reach an optimal position and tension.
If you were to increase cage tension using the H-screw, it would move the top pulley closer to the cassette as it's nonconcentric with the cage pivot.
Then to slightly balance this and further increase chain tension if required, you could increase B-tension.

On my SR EPS 12s RD, the factory H-screw setting was so low, that to reach an optimal pulley to cassette distance, the B-screw needed to be fully backed out. Using the H-screw would have allowed some more B-tension to be applied and the derailleur would have been more properly positioned. But, alas, I disassembled the bike before I got a chance to do this.

Butcher
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Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

Seems like it's not just a Campagnolo issue. This may explain the issue.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/products/ ... in-sprints

fignonsbarber
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:24 pm

by fignonsbarber

MrCurrieinahurry wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:41 pm
Hey guys for u info from a trusted source.
Hi Adam,

Something quite evident from the video on this thread is that the upper jockey wheel is quite far away from the cassette, this decreases the tension in the chain, allowing for excess slack when transitioning from load to release.

It is also worth pointing out that the only differences between a Pro’s WTO and what is bought in the shop are the bearings used; the hub shell bearings are CULT, not USB and the freehub body bearings are double sealed as opposed to single sealed (this is so they can be jet washed after each stage). The last of these modifications have the effect of increasing freehub rotation friction, but with correct assembly and position of the RD, none of the teams suffer this chain slap happening.

Having spoken to my colleague individually, each have come to the decision that it is incorrect assembly that is causing this from happening.

With correct assembly of your V4 12 speed group, the system should be flawless.
I hope this alleviates your concerns for the Super Record 12 speed EPS

Thanks for this and the other informative posts. Have this exact issue with my Record 12s. Adjustment of the H and B screw, and "so far ,so good". For those who sniped at the OP for stopping pedaling suddenly, it happens all the time in racing and also simple interval training.

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MrCurrieinahurry
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by MrCurrieinahurry

No problemo,

Basso Diamante eps 12

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Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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