Carbon-Ti + THM Clavicula SE + SRAM Red AXS
Moderator: robbosmans
I was wondering if anyone here has Carbon-Ti chainrings and THM Clavicula SE cranks running on SRAM Red AXS (12 sp) without any problem. I have not been able to shift from the small ring to the big one in the front. I have the X version of Carbon-Ti chainrings (48-35) and according to Carbon-Ti, these chainrings should be compatible with AXS. I have taken my bike to multiple mechanics but no one could fix the problem. Getting really frustrated. Last resort is to sacrifice the good looking combo of Carbon-Ti and THM and replace them with Sram's ugly chainrings and crank...
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I am running Carbon-Ti rings with a P2M spider and Cannondale SI crank arms.
Shifting from small to big is mostly dependent on the limit screws.
SRAM AXS is NUTORIOUS for the over shift. You can go read up on the threads on this forum. Chain drops galore.
Problem is......once you get the FD not behave (by adjusting the limit screw) and not overshift (drop the chain going to the big ring), it gives you the problem as described above.......Set the outer limit again further away (anti clock wise) and it will shift to the big gear buy with the new risk/problem of over shifting.
Go test it out..........
I have had so much crap now with the AXS FD and my Carbon-Ti rings, I have moved to a 1x setup ant burnt the FD.
Shifting from small to big is mostly dependent on the limit screws.
SRAM AXS is NUTORIOUS for the over shift. You can go read up on the threads on this forum. Chain drops galore.
Problem is......once you get the FD not behave (by adjusting the limit screw) and not overshift (drop the chain going to the big ring), it gives you the problem as described above.......Set the outer limit again further away (anti clock wise) and it will shift to the big gear buy with the new risk/problem of over shifting.
Go test it out..........
I have had so much crap now with the AXS FD and my Carbon-Ti rings, I have moved to a 1x setup ant burnt the FD.
"In my experience, there is only one motivation, and that is DESIRE.
No reason or principle contain it or stand against it........"
No reason or principle contain it or stand against it........"
I gave up trying to setup a eTap FD with Extralite chainrings.
I can get them to shift nicely on the small cogs. I can get them to shift nicely on the bigger cogs. But NEVER both.
Trying to setup them to shift in the middle of the cassete causes chain drops on the outside or rattling without completing a shift.
Bought this https://wickwerks.com/products/sentinel ... n-catcher/ after denting my new bike/cranks and setup the FD to shift well on the bigger cogs.
My Shimano Dura-Ace Di2 and my very old 105 never had this problem. Shifting was never butter smooth like with Shimano chainrings, but at least it shifted without droping the chain, any combination. We all know SRAM can't make a decent FD .
I can get them to shift nicely on the small cogs. I can get them to shift nicely on the bigger cogs. But NEVER both.
Trying to setup them to shift in the middle of the cassete causes chain drops on the outside or rattling without completing a shift.
Bought this https://wickwerks.com/products/sentinel ... n-catcher/ after denting my new bike/cranks and setup the FD to shift well on the bigger cogs.
My Shimano Dura-Ace Di2 and my very old 105 never had this problem. Shifting was never butter smooth like with Shimano chainrings, but at least it shifted without droping the chain, any combination. We all know SRAM can't make a decent FD .
Last edited by inibex on Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I blame the chainrings too. They are well known for poor shifting quality. But that doesn't mean etap FD isn't to blame too: as I said, those same chainrings were used on a old 5800/9170 and while not perfect they shifted much better than SRAM. YMMV.
On my new Tarmac SL7 I have the same exact setup: carbon ti chainrings 48-35, thm clavicula SE and sram red etap AXS 12.
At first (beginning of October) I had a KMC DL 12sp chain and it didn’t work at all. Chain dropped 50% of the time while shifting from inner to outer ring. Once it got stuck inside the crank arm and (luckily) slightly scratched it. You can bet I was more than disappointed and I went to the lBS. there they told me, after 3/4hours of work (they tried to move the FD first, then they shortened the chain without any results) that it was due to the chain being slightly larger (0.9mm - if I remember correctly) than the sram one and maybe to the chainrings as Sram AXS tolerances are close to 0. So they put a sram red chain and since then 95% of the time it shifts fine. Not as smooth/noiseless as you would expect from a top group set though. 5% of the time, especially when I’m in the 15/17 cogs, it doesn’t shift and I have to move up/down one cog to shift to the bigger ring.
Overall I can’t say I’m not satisfied with sram red axs but I’m not Not sure I would recommend it to a friend .. hopefully they can solve it with a 2.0 version of their FD. If not I’ll go back to dura ace.
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At first (beginning of October) I had a KMC DL 12sp chain and it didn’t work at all. Chain dropped 50% of the time while shifting from inner to outer ring. Once it got stuck inside the crank arm and (luckily) slightly scratched it. You can bet I was more than disappointed and I went to the lBS. there they told me, after 3/4hours of work (they tried to move the FD first, then they shortened the chain without any results) that it was due to the chain being slightly larger (0.9mm - if I remember correctly) than the sram one and maybe to the chainrings as Sram AXS tolerances are close to 0. So they put a sram red chain and since then 95% of the time it shifts fine. Not as smooth/noiseless as you would expect from a top group set though. 5% of the time, especially when I’m in the 15/17 cogs, it doesn’t shift and I have to move up/down one cog to shift to the bigger ring.
Overall I can’t say I’m not satisfied with sram red axs but I’m not Not sure I would recommend it to a friend .. hopefully they can solve it with a 2.0 version of their FD. If not I’ll go back to dura ace.
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Thanks all for chiming in... I am really curious if anyone out there has the same combo and got them working fine without any issues... This is what the Carbon-Ti folks had to say in response to my problem:
The AXS chainrings require a very accurate derailleur adjustment because the chains are very narrow. So, it could take much more time than usual.
First of all I ask you to check the alignment of both chainrings, with the reference point aligned under the crank arm. Please check on our instruction manual provided with the product or attached to this mail.
This is very important for the synchronization of the two chainrings, for the correct upshifting and downshifting.
About the height and alignment of the derailleur cage I kindly ask you to see the derailleur manufacturer recommendations.
The derailleur cage height and in lateral centering must be meticulously tuned aligning the respective reference points engraved on the derailleur cage in height and width.
At last, if everything else is very well setted, please check the end stop of the front derailleur.
If you previously had different chainrings for sure you have to modify the end stop because the chainline for sure is slighly changed....
====
I am very sorry that the problems have not been solved.
Usually, even in the worst cases, you should solve all the shifting problems with a KMC 12s chain.
We have sold thousands of X-AXS pairs and had a small number of unsolved issues due to chain lines, very far (much more external) from the original SRAM (45 mm) on which the AXS front derailleur works at their best.
Anyway, however this would not be the case, is it possible that the THM Clavicula has been abnormally thickened? Please, notice that many customers mount that crankset with our X-AXS chainrings without any problems; Furthermore, we directly supply our chainrings to THM for their first assembly.
====
The AXS chainrings require a very accurate derailleur adjustment because the chains are very narrow. So, it could take much more time than usual.
First of all I ask you to check the alignment of both chainrings, with the reference point aligned under the crank arm. Please check on our instruction manual provided with the product or attached to this mail.
This is very important for the synchronization of the two chainrings, for the correct upshifting and downshifting.
About the height and alignment of the derailleur cage I kindly ask you to see the derailleur manufacturer recommendations.
The derailleur cage height and in lateral centering must be meticulously tuned aligning the respective reference points engraved on the derailleur cage in height and width.
At last, if everything else is very well setted, please check the end stop of the front derailleur.
If you previously had different chainrings for sure you have to modify the end stop because the chainline for sure is slighly changed....
====
I am very sorry that the problems have not been solved.
Usually, even in the worst cases, you should solve all the shifting problems with a KMC 12s chain.
We have sold thousands of X-AXS pairs and had a small number of unsolved issues due to chain lines, very far (much more external) from the original SRAM (45 mm) on which the AXS front derailleur works at their best.
Anyway, however this would not be the case, is it possible that the THM Clavicula has been abnormally thickened? Please, notice that many customers mount that crankset with our X-AXS chainrings without any problems; Furthermore, we directly supply our chainrings to THM for their first assembly.
====
This is a very interesting topic indeed.
I too was thinking of this setup, although pushing even farther on experimentality with 33 - 48 rings. I woulnd't mind poorer front shifting, if I could get a wider range.
A while ago I emailed carbon-ti asking about the 33-48 and seems it's just not possible: reasons are, they say, "gears would not be synched between them, since they have different chain lines: 46/33 have lines one mm inward to allow for a correct passing of the 110 bcd". Now I can see the strict points they make about this impossibility, but still wonder if they're being conservative and whether allowing for some compromise a 33 - 48 would still, after all work (better yet if paired with a Clavicula). But I have no clue given my ignorance about bike set up so any comment is welcome.
I too was thinking of this setup, although pushing even farther on experimentality with 33 - 48 rings. I woulnd't mind poorer front shifting, if I could get a wider range.
A while ago I emailed carbon-ti asking about the 33-48 and seems it's just not possible: reasons are, they say, "gears would not be synched between them, since they have different chain lines: 46/33 have lines one mm inward to allow for a correct passing of the 110 bcd". Now I can see the strict points they make about this impossibility, but still wonder if they're being conservative and whether allowing for some compromise a 33 - 48 would still, after all work (better yet if paired with a Clavicula). But I have no clue given my ignorance about bike set up so any comment is welcome.
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Nobody mentioned to start here. Look at W3 and W4 specs on the table. I'm running Sram Force AXS on Rotor 3D 110bcd x5 with the Carbon Ti 50/37 chainrings. Threw away the useless red FD set up tool. Just use the white lines, and the wedge to getthe FD dialed. Also position the FD cage as close to the tallest tooth on big chain ring as possible w/o contact when shifting. Took several trials to finally land on the position that works w/o the dreaded chain drops to the outside. The cage lines are actually slightly past parallel inboard towards the bottom end of the cage.
2016 Time Skylon w/Sram Force 22 and Boyd 60's
2020 Merida 8000e w/Sram Force AXS and Token 52's
2020 Merida 8000e w/Sram Force AXS and Token 52's