Classified hub - Is this the new big thing?

[Singular]

At 10,000 shifts per charge the battery life isn't stellar compared to Di2.

I looked at a recent ride of mine that was 1h 56m in duration. That ride over my typical terrain had 266 shifts. 10000/266 = 37 of those rides if I pushed it to the max which I'd never do. So under 30 rides leaving a nice safety margin and not running the Li-ion battery down close to zero (which isn't good for them). I've never check the number of rides on Di2 because it is so long but I can go months between charges.

Yeah, but that's all shifts (front and rear), right? How many front derailleur shifts did you do...?

[aeroisnteverything]

I'd be cool if DT Swiss bought these guys out and then did a bit of technology cross-polination: DT Swiss using their latest internal refinements to reduce the weight further, and then lace these Classified hubs up directly to DT Swiss's latest ARC rims of all sizes. Instant winner.

[bikewithnoname]

I'll be interested when version 4 is released afyer it's lost some weight and is real world proven. Drag is going to be a major issue for road use

[snaxez]

Can they just sell the cassette separately? That looks awesome, and hopefully it doesn't have the problem the Rotor Uno has with the larger cogs breaking off.

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https://classified-cycling.cc/en/online-shop/cassettes

[tleo]

Yeah, but that's all shifts (front and rear), right? How many front derailleur shifts did you do...?

# rides - 1
# shifts - 266
# front shifts - 10 (4%)
# rear shifts - 256 (96%)

[Singular]

Yeah, but that's all shifts (front and rear), right? How many front derailleur shifts did you do...?

# rides - 1
# shifts - 266
# front shifts - 10 (4%)
# rear shifts - 256 (96%)

Well, then you have 1000 rides with one charge...?

[pmprego]

Yeah, but that's all shifts (front and rear), right? How many front derailleur shifts did you do...?

# rides - 1
# shifts - 266
# front shifts - 10 (4%)
# rear shifts - 256 (96%)

Well, then you have 1000 rides with one charge...?

Given an easy and fast front shift people would use much more frequently. But even if I assume that people would use 10x more frequently then one charge for each 100 rides. So a charge for every 5 or 6 months. That's really good in my eyes.

[TobinHatesYou]

Yeah, but that's all shifts (front and rear), right? How many front derailleur shifts did you do...?

# rides - 1
# shifts - 266
# front shifts - 10 (4%)
# rear shifts - 256 (96%)

Think about the Classified system for a second. The battery is only used for shifting the planetary gearset, not the rear derailleur. You would have only discharged that particular battery 10 times on a 2hr ride.

[TobinHatesYou]

Given an easy and fast front shift people would use much more frequently. But even if I assume that people would use 10x more frequently then one charge for each 100 rides. So a charge for every 5 or 6 months. That's really good in my eyes.

There is still that optimistic claimed 1% loss in efficiency. I don't think I would be "front" shifting more often.

[Beaumont]

Tour magazin tested the efficiency of the classified and unfortunately it does not look that great. They found 93.5% efficiency in the easiest gear. Compared to ekar that was 2.5% to 4% less efficient (dependent on gear). So if your riding up a mountain at FTP of let's say 300 W and your friend is riding ekar next to you they only have to push 287W. Compared to a 2x12 that difference will be even bigger because it's even more efficient.

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Oh... heartbreak...seriously I was sold on the idea, I was hoping they somehow sorted out friction losses I would love to have such system on my road bike, instant shifting under the load + nice oval 1x chainring without compromise in the gearing - a dream!

But 93,5% seems like waaaaaay too much of my precious (miserable) watts uphill... unfortunately I am not Tim Declercq to do not bother about a dozen of watts

[TobinHatesYou]

Please clarify. 93.5% efficient compared to what, a baseline 2x drivetrain or input wattage at the crank?

[tleo]

At 10,000 shifts per charge the battery life isn't stellar compared to Di2.

I looked at a recent ride of mine that was 1h 56m in duration. That ride over my typical terrain had 266 shifts. 10000/266 = 37 of those rides if I pushed it to the max which I'd never do. So under 30 rides leaving a nice safety margin and not running the Li-ion battery down close to zero (which isn't good for them). I've never check the number of rides on Di2 because it is so long but I can go months between charges.

Yeah, but that's all shifts (front and rear), right? How many front derailleur shifts did you do...?

After looking at the videos to get a better understanding I think my concern was misplaced somewhat and stand corrected. It appears to me a conventional RD handles most of the shifts and the hub is only involved in changing ranges. I initially thought it was involved in all gear changes. Interesting concept that I'm going to keep an eye on. Hopefully if successful it will come down in price some.

[Cycomanic]

Please clarify. 93.5% efficient compared to what, a baseline 2x drivetrain or input wattage at the crank?

Tour is a bit unclear with their language in the test. They write 93.5% drivetrain efficiency, which indicates that is input wattage to wattage that drives you forward. In the text they have a sentence:
"Der classified Antrieb verursacht zwischen 2,5 und 4 Prozent zusätzliche Reibung im Vergleich zum Ekar-Kettengetriebe. Der Wirkungsgrad fällt von 96 auf bestenfalls 93,5 Prozent"

Which roughly translated means: "The classified drivetrain causes between 2.5 and 4% additional friction compared to the Ekar drivetrain. The efficiency therefor falls from 96% to 93.5% in the best case"

I think the correct words would have been the drivetrain causes 2.5-4 percentage points (not percentage) more additional friction. I interpret this to mean that in the best case (for classified) Ekar has 96% efficiency and Classified 93.5% (a 2.5 percentage points or 2.6% less efficient) and in the worst case Ekar has 96% and Classified has 92% (which would be about 4% lesss efficient) or Ekar has 97.5 % efficiency and Classified has 93.5% or somewhere in between. They also say that the bike with Classified was consistently slower on 4 paired testrides.

Considering that the Ekar drivetrain is slightly less efficient than a 2x12(11) in some gears because of the chain line, the picture looks even worse for road use. I was actually quite excited when I saw the first announcements (especially considering the efficiency numbers), but I guess the realities of physics are hard to beat.

[aeroisnteverything]

Please clarify. 93.5% efficient compared to what, a baseline 2x drivetrain or input wattage at the crank?

Tour is a bit unclear with their language in the test. They write 93.5% drivetrain efficiency, which indicates that is input wattage to wattage that drives you forward. In the text they have a sentence:
"Der classified Antrieb verursacht zwischen 2,5 und 4 Prozent zusätzliche Reibung im Vergleich zum Ekar-Kettengetriebe. Der Wirkungsgrad fällt von 96 auf bestenfalls 93,5 Prozent"

Which roughly translated means: "The classified drivetrain causes between 2.5 and 4% additional friction compared to the Ekar drivetrain. The efficiency therefor falls from 96% to 93.5% in the best case"

I think the correct words would have been the drivetrain causes 2.5-4 percentage points (not percentage) more additional friction. I interpret this to mean that in the best case (for classified) Ekar has 96% efficiency and Classified 93.5% (a 2.5 percentage points or 2.6% less efficient) and in the worst case Ekar has 96% and Classified has 92% (which would be about 4% lesss efficient) or Ekar has 97.5 % efficiency and Classified has 93.5% or somewhere in between. They also say that the bike with Classified was consistently slower on 4 paired testrides.

Considering that the Ekar drivetrain is slightly less efficient than a 2x12(11) in some gears because of the chain line, the picture looks even worse for road use. I was actually quite excited when I saw the first announcements (especially considering the efficiency numbers), but I guess the realities of physics are hard to beat.

4 percentage points isn't great. But I still don't get the comparison. Are they comparing Ekar to Classified in it's low gear config? That's not quite right since most of the time, you'd be riding in the equivailent of a big ring, with zero losses - a configuration where Classified should be more efficient than Ekar.

The real apples-to-apples needs to be a comparison vs the standard Dura Ace or Ultegra 2x11 set up accross the cassette range with a compact or semi-compact crank. I think it's fair to say that if Classified looses 4% to the small ring of a 2x setup, then they have work to do. If it's more like 2-2.5% loss or less vs small ring, then that may be entirely tolerable and might be largely offset by the aero gain from loosing the FD.

[tjvirden]

4 percentage points isn't great. But I still don't get the comparison. Are they comparing Ekar to Classified in it's low gear config? That's not quite right since most of the time, you'd be riding in the equivailent of a big ring, with zero losses - a configuration where Classified should be more efficient than Ekar.

The real apples-to-apples needs to be a comparison vs the standard Dura Ace or Ultegra 2x11 set up accross the cassette range with a compact or semi-compact crank. I think it's fair to say that if Classified looses 4% to the small ring of a 2x setup, then they have work to do. If it's more like 2-2.5% loss or less vs small ring, then that may be entirely tolerable and might be largely offset by the aero gain from loosing the FD.

Would you care to put a number on the "aero gain" from no FD?