Classified hub - Is this the new big thing?

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Cycomanic
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:10 pm

by Cycomanic

SCJKJ wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:41 pm
Cycomanic wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:33 pm
Tour magazin tested the efficiency of the classified and unfortunately it does not look that great. They found 93.5% efficiency in the easiest gear. Compared to ekar that was 2.5% to 4% less efficient (dependent on gear). So if your riding up a mountain at FTP of let's say 300 W and your friend is riding ekar next to you they only have to push 287W. Compared to a 2x12 that difference will be even bigger because it's even more efficient.

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Do you have a link? Somehow I can't find this.
Sorry I don't have a link. The test was in Tour 12/2020 on page 54

Cycomanic
Posts: 391
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by Cycomanic

aeroisnteverything wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:27 am
Lina wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:55 am
tjvirden wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:22 am
aeroisnteverything wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:27 am
4 percentage points isn't great. But I still don't get the comparison. Are they comparing Ekar to Classified in it's low gear config? That's not quite right since most of the time, you'd be riding in the equivailent of a big ring, with zero losses - a configuration where Classified should be more efficient than Ekar.

The real apples-to-apples needs to be a comparison vs the standard Dura Ace or Ultegra 2x11 set up accross the cassette range with a compact or semi-compact crank. I think it's fair to say that if Classified looses 4% to the small ring of a 2x setup, then they have work to do. If it's more like 2-2.5% loss or less vs small ring, then that may be entirely tolerable and might be largely offset by the aero gain from loosing the FD.
Would you care to put a number on the "aero gain" from no FD?
Is there going to even be a real aero gain from no FD since the efficiency losses only happen on the small chainring ratio. And when you're on the small chainring you aren't going that fast.
The gain is hard to measure because it depends on the frame, yaw angle, etc. A frame with an uncovered FD mount migh give very little gain,while a frame designed for 1x from the get go should show a pretty decent one. In any case, the gain is there - hard to see how it couldn't be! People have measured that flush skewers save a handful of watts, so I'd say around 4-5w at 40kph for a frame sans FD is in the realm of reasonable.

I don't get the last comment though. The aero gain is going to be there for all ratios, since the FD is gone permanently. The additional drivetrain loss is only there for the time that you are in the "small ring" on classified system. So if you are only riding in "big ring" or are in the big ring 90% of the time, then the classified system should be a definite net positive. If you are climbing a lot, then this is a lot less clear.
4-5W at 40 km/h is completely unrealistic. The FD is in nearly completely disturbed air and therefore changes at that position will hardly make any difference. Even for the the flush skewers gains on the order of Watts is dreamland territory and a skewer at the front wheel sits in much more undisturbed air than the FD. The thing about aero gains is that if it sits in distburbed air and does not somehow prevent reattachment of the airflow (which the FD clearly doesn't) it will hardly have any influence on the aerodynamics.

by Weenie


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tabl10s
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by tabl10s

2015 Pinarello F8: 13.13lbs/5.915kg(w/Roval 64's). Sold.
2016 Rca: 11.07lbs/5.048kg.
2015 Rca. 11.15 lbs(w/Roval CLX 32's)
2015 Rca/NOS(sold).
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pmprego
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by pmprego

tabl10s wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:35 pm
https://youtu.be/UFMhUYoqFyc
I dont even know what to say about that post. I'm Speechless

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Raimundo
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by Raimundo

Considering it comes with the complete wheelset, it actually seems like a good deal.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

3T should have loved this for the original Strada. I would seriously like to try it. The thing that would worry me is that the company is new aka small, if shit goes down, well you get it!
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Gary71
Posts: 267
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Location: Brisbane Australia

by Gary71

Dredging up an old post to ask if anyone has bought and fitted this to a bike and used it...... What do you think?

Dat
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:57 am

by Dat

The U.K. rep came in to the shop a few weeks back and his bike had it on.

The shifting is immediate and doesn't feel that draggy. It does freewheel a little less well. There is definitely more weight towards the back of the bike but apparently not much more than the chainring/front mech. The cassette shifted well enough that I didn't think about it until now I'm reflecting.

We are trying to get a demo wheelset to sell them from. I'm not sure I'd use it but it's definitely intresting technology.

Shrike
Posts: 2019
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:08 pm

by Shrike

If SRAM acquire them we’re sorted.

No idea how much funding these guys have but doubt it’s enough to iterate this to where it needs to be for road race. And even if they do, they’re not integrated. Just sell to SRAM and pat yourselves on the back. After a few years they might have it optimised and we all win.

The alternative is this becomes decently adopted mid level recreational/touring/commuter tech.

Dat
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:57 am

by Dat

They have a MTB version in the works. I commute on a MTB sometimes so it would be nice to have the bigger range. I'd have to take off my new control sl wheels through and I can't see that happening.

wooger
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:32 am

by wooger

They claim their 12-speed cassettes are compatible with SRAM, Shimano & Campy, but they all use different spacing. Odd.

pmprego
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by pmprego

wooger wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:08 pm
They claim their 12-speed cassettes are compatible with SRAM, Shimano & Campy, but they all use different spacing. Odd.
Simple way to say "as long you are on 12spd, all do the same irrespective of what they tell you".

spdntrxi
Posts: 5790
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by spdntrxi

Dat wrote:
Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:58 am
The U.K. rep came in to the shop a few weeks back and his bike had it on.

The shifting is immediate and doesn't feel that draggy. It does freewheel a little less well. There is definitely more weight towards the back of the bike but apparently not much more than the chainring/front mech. The cassette shifted well enough that I didn't think about it until now I'm reflecting.

We are trying to get a demo wheelset to sell them from. I'm not sure I'd use it but it's definitely intresting technology.
it's a little more then a FD+chainring. The penalty is about 350g . I'd still do it on the gravel rig.
2024 BMC TeamMachine R Building
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Nickldn
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by Nickldn

pmprego wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:46 pm
wooger wrote:
Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:08 pm
They claim their 12-speed cassettes are compatible with SRAM, Shimano & Campy, but they all use different spacing. Odd.
Simple way to say "as long you are on 12spd, all do the same irrespective of what they tell you".
I wonder if anyone's tested the cassette on all three.

Unless it's somehow really really cleverly machined I'd expect the reality to be more like "our cassettes are compatible with any 12s groupset, so expect shifting to be somewhat bad to terrible no matter which one you have".
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PaulJ
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 1:42 pm

by PaulJ

Personally I think a larger small - big difference is really where the benefits of this will lie. While the ratio is ~0.7, essentially mimicking a conventional 2x front setup, it doesn't really solve a problem for me. But change that ratio and all of a sudden you have no overlap, 22 discrete gears. Or where you would normally have a 1x large range cassette, on a gravel bike for example, you can now get the same absolute range but with much closer jumps and double the gears in between. Plus there probably wont be the same weight penalty if you're ditching a heavy 11-42 cassette for this system.

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