"Lightness" vs "Aeroness" UPDATED 10/2023

[bobones]

Tour magazin has published Tour de France techbriefs, where they calculated theoretically times in different stages.
Stage profile, weight and aero.

Here is one example from a mountain stage.
https://www.tour-magazin.de/profi-radsp ... -stage-15/

Another from a final climb
https://www.tour-magazin.de/profi-radsp ... -stage-17/

Great find

It's been discussed here before. Some say SuperSix is previous generation. No SL8 either, which would probably dominate on same test now. Interesting that Propel seems to be the best all rounder and is probably the best value proposition too given that the top of the range SL frameset is available now for £3.4k, which is about £2k less that the other main contenders. Integrated barstem solutions also cheaper. Enough of a difference to cover the cost of some decent wheels. If it's about performance rather than posing, then it's hard to argue against the Propel.

[cleanneon98]

Tour magazin has published Tour de France techbriefs, where they calculated theoretically times in different stages.
Stage profile, weight and aero.

Here is one example from a mountain stage.
https://www.tour-magazin.de/profi-radsp ... -stage-15/

Another from a final climb
https://www.tour-magazin.de/profi-radsp ... -stage-17/

Great find

It's been discussed here before. Some say SuperSix is previous generation. No SL8 either, which would probably dominate on same test now. Interesting that Propel seems to be the best all rounder and is probably the best value proposition too given that the top of the range SL frameset is available now for £3.4k, which is about £2k less that the other main contenders. Integrated barstem solutions also cheaper. Enough of a difference to cover the cost of some decent wheels. If it's about performance rather than posing, then it's hard to argue against the Propel.

I'm not sure dominate is the right word for the SL8 considering it's a very incremental improvement over the SL7 (which is mid pack in the overall stage and just barely at the top for the final climb), and even the Propel with similar weight and aero isn't a standout for performance (I agree the value is there). If you compare the SL7 final climb time to say the Timemachine at the same aero and almost 1kg heavier, they are 29 seconds apart on the final climb. 300g or whatever savings the SL8 offers is not going to "dominate" anything

[GrassQ]

In mountain and sprint stages aerobikes should still "dominate".
In that final climb SL8 could be some seconds faster than propel. Based same aeronumber and 200 g weight reduction

[wheelsONfire]

The only thing that dominate is the one on the bike. Are you guys paid by Spesh are is it a religion for you?

[spdntrxi]

The only thing that dominate is the one on the bike. Are you guys paid by Spesh are is it a CULT for you?

fixed

[GrassQ]

For clarification:
SL8 is not an aerobike
Calculated differences are very small

[cleanneon98]

For clarification:
SL8 is not an aerobike
Calculated differences are very small

Not according to Specialized

AERO IN EVERYTHING: We’re putting aero where it matters - the leading edge - not just where it looks good. In the process we’ve created our most aerodynamic road bike ever. Yes, it’s more aero than the Venge.

[GrassQ]

Ok Slogan is nót any more -aero is everything -?
In my papers its a lightaero, aeroish or semiaero. In Propel, Dogma, Van Rysel, Supersix basket

[cleanneon98]

That slogan doesn't work for what they are selling this year, maybe in 2026

[EtoDemerzel]

Tour's tests are not like-for-like. Meaning the tested bikes differ wildly in spec sometimes. Testing one bike without integrated cockpit and shallow wheels while testing the top tier fully aero optimized of another brand.

You have to dig into specfics to get an accurate gauge of a specific bike's aero qualifications. For example, Tour consistently tests the S-Works version of Specialized products, while testing mid and even more entry of other brands or setups where quite large differences are noted in their individual tests but all results are on the same chart, inviting direct comparison when no one would ever buy this way.

This would like testing a 105 SL8 with shallow wheels, standard bar and stem but simply putting it on the list as "Specialized SL8".

[cleanneon98]

I do agree they should always test the top tier bikes from each brand to keep things fair. However I don't agree with some arguments I've seen that they should test stuff on the same control wheels vs the native wheels that come with it. Sure if you test all bikes on one wheelset it isolates the difference between frames, but most people buying the top spec bikes (or even mid tier) aren't going to be swapping wheels and stuff around.

That being said out of curiosity, what could one expect to save swapping say 50mm wheels for 60mm.

[bobones]

I've read recently that there's not that much to be gained by going bigger than 50. I've also wondered what the difference would be between different sizes, e.g. 54 to 56 and what gains there are going from two piece stem and bar to integrated. Many bikes are supplied and tested with 2-piece so some watts can be saved from a more aero cockpit for the likes of the Propel and SL7.

[cleanneon98]

I'd guess 1-2w for one piece cockpit (all of which is lost as soon as you put a Garmin on) and maybe 1-2 for a shorter headtube. Worth noting the older Madone rim brake which tested at 204w was partly aided by the H1 geometry with the shorter front end.

[Nickldn]

^ agreed that one piece cockpit is a marketing gain only once a Garmin computer and front light are fitted, but they sure look pretty.

If a manufacturer came up with an aero fully streamlined computer and front light mount I would believe the aero gains more.

[matcav]

Meaning the tested bikes differ wildly in spec sometimes

I have the same impression confronting the claimed weights.

For instance:
Cervel R5 - 7,33kg
Supersix - 7,60kg
Colnago V4 - 7,45kg

while:
Ultimate - 7,03kg
Emonda - 7.03kg
Scultura - 7,05kg

I see no correlation between frame weight and reported bike weight. It makes me think not all models are assessed with their top-tier DA setup, therefore rather inconsistent comparison / results