My adventures in chain waxing: goals, reviews, suggestions...

[otnemem]

I thought the newest MSW was just as fast as Silca?

It is. They're neck and neck.

No MSW is ahead, less wear and last longer (and cheaper).

Yes, MSW works out cheaper than Hot Melt, but the question was about them being just as fast as each other and if you correlate friction to wear: "The results are within measurement tolerance".

[bobones]

I'm considering giving up waxing my winter bike chains, although I am loathe to go back to oily black drive trains. I've just had to bin 2 Force AXS chains that I bought in November, which have only seen a few hundred miles each, as both are over 0.5% wear indicator on Park CC-4 checker. I think the problem is that rain and is carrying grit into the chain which removes the solid wax pretty early in a wet ride, so I am effectively riding without lubrication, even though the chains still sound smooth and quiet. Added to that, it's an ongoing battle with rust as wiping down chains after a ride is not sufficient to remove the moisture. Also, I may have exacerbated the problem by using a hot water and citric acid solution to remove rust and wax when it comes to reimersing them in the wax bath. The strange thing is that I didn't really have this problem last winter, and I seemed to get decent life from my chains.

I've bought another 3 chains, and I need to decide what to do. Should I move to a good wet lube like SIlca Synergetic, or tighten up my waxing and maintenance regime so that I am always decontaminating and drying chains after a really wet ride? Any suggestions for best drivetrain performance and longevity when frequent wet riding is unavoidable.

[TidyDinosaur]

I take my chain off every time I wash the bike (which is almost after every ride in this weather). I just throw it in the bucket with soapy water I use to clean the bike and after cleaning the bike I clean the chain with the washing mitt I used for the bike and dry it with a rag. I then dry the chain further by placing it on a part of our heating pipe in the storage room close to the heater. This seems to work to keer the chain rust free.

[basilic]

@bobones
A couple things seem odd:
- if the wax is washed off, the chain should squeak
- but a waxed chain shouldn't elongate, so that confirms your idea that you ride without wax. Are you sure they were at 0% when new? it's not always the case
- rust? i haven't seen that on a maintained quality chain, unless the bike is exposed to the elements for weeks

I wonder what chains you use. If they are ebay specials, just don't, buy a quality DA chain that'll last forever. Rewax when you hear a squak. It shouldn't elongate or rust.

[JaeOne3345]

- if the wax is washed off, the chain should squeak

I'm sure someone will tell me I am wrong and have no idea what I am talking about because this is weight weenies, but in my experience with running waxed chains in the wet, they do not squeak during the ride. Once I get home and/or it has dried on its own, that is when I hear the squeak and know its time to swap chains. They never seem to squeak while I am actually in the wet.

[BdaGhisallo]

- if the wax is washed off, the chain should squeak

I'm sure someone will tell me I am wrong and have no idea what I am talking about because this is weight weenies, but in my experience with running waxed chains in the wet, they do not squeak during the ride. Once I get home and/or it has dried on its own, that is when I hear the squeak and know its time to swap chains. They never seem to squeak while I am actually in the wet.

I would agree.

That said, though, I do get a weird thing in the wet where the top three or four cogs on my DA9100 cassettes creak quite loudly in the wet when I use them. The first time I heard it I thought I had a bum cassette but as soon as things dry out ( and I can even just put the bike away wet and let it dry on its own) and I ride it again, there's no creaking, even when I really put some torque into those cogs. I don't know if it's chain and waxing related or cassette related but it is odd.

I don't ride that much in the full wet or for that long when I am caught in it, but I have found my waxed chains to hold up quite well through it. They do require some TLC when I finish riding, but it's probably less work than having to clean up an oiled chain bike after that oil has mixed with lots of water and road grime during a wet ride.

[voicycle]

I'm considering giving up waxing my winter bike chains, although I am loathe to go back to oily black drive trains. I've just had to bin 2 Force AXS chains that I bought in November, which have only seen a few hundred miles each, as both are over 0.5% wear indicator on Park CC-4 checker. I think the problem is that rain and is carrying grit into the chain which removes the solid wax pretty early in a wet ride, so I am effectively riding without lubrication, even though the chains still sound smooth and quiet. Added to that, it's an ongoing battle with rust as wiping down chains after a ride is not sufficient to remove the moisture. Also, I may have exacerbated the problem by using a hot water and citric acid solution to remove rust and wax when it comes to reimersing them in the wax bath. The strange thing is that I didn't really have this problem last winter, and I seemed to get decent life from my chains.

I've bought another 3 chains, and I need to decide what to do. Should I move to a good wet lube like SIlca Synergetic, or tighten up my waxing and maintenance regime so that I am always decontaminating and drying chains after a really wet ride? Any suggestions for best drivetrain performance and longevity when frequent wet riding is unavoidable.

I’m having the same issue with a YBN chain. Headed for the bin after less than 300 miles - fitted just before new year and only used on rides up to 3hrs. Boil rinses, dry overnight, then re-wax after wet rides (which has been all of them due to wet roads even if there’s no rain.)

This is my first time waxing through winter though so I just figured it was the salt and grit on the roads. Until this year I only waxed the summer bike - anything that gets ridden in the wet had tru-tension instead, and I’ve gotten great longevity out of that. Am thinking maybe I should go back to doing it that way, at least until we’re salt-free again here in Scotland.


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[basilic]

- if the wax is washed off, the chain should squeak

I'm sure someone will tell me I am wrong and have no idea what I am talking about because this is weight weenies, but in my experience with running waxed chains in the wet, they do not squeak during the ride. Once I get home and/or it has dried on its own, that is when I hear the squeak and know its time to swap chains. They never seem to squeak while I am actually in the wet.

ok, I haven't paid attention enough, maybe they only squeak on the next ride. Is that so for the OP? or are his chains consistently quiet?

[bobones]

I'm considering giving up waxing my winter bike chains, although I am loathe to go back to oily black drive trains. I've just had to bin 2 Force AXS chains that I bought in November, which have only seen a few hundred miles each, as both are over 0.5% wear indicator on Park CC-4 checker. I think the problem is that rain and is carrying grit into the chain which removes the solid wax pretty early in a wet ride, so I am effectively riding without lubrication, even though the chains still sound smooth and quiet. Added to that, it's an ongoing battle with rust as wiping down chains after a ride is not sufficient to remove the moisture. Also, I may have exacerbated the problem by using a hot water and citric acid solution to remove rust and wax when it comes to reimersing them in the wax bath. The strange thing is that I didn't really have this problem last winter, and I seemed to get decent life from my chains.

I've bought another 3 chains, and I need to decide what to do. Should I move to a good wet lube like SIlca Synergetic, or tighten up my waxing and maintenance regime so that I am always decontaminating and drying chains after a really wet ride? Any suggestions for best drivetrain performance and longevity when frequent wet riding is unavoidable.

I’m having the same issue with a YBN chain. Headed for the bin after less than 300 miles - fitted just before new year and only used on rides up to 3hrs. Boil rinses, dry overnight, then re-wax after wet rides (which has been all of them due to wet roads even if there’s no rain.)

This is my first time waxing through winter though so I just figured it was the salt and grit on the roads. Until this year I only waxed the summer bike - anything that gets ridden in the wet had tru-tension instead, and I’ve gotten great longevity out of that. Am thinking maybe I should go back to doing it that way, at least until we’re salt-free again here in Scotland.

I'm in Scotland too, and the weather recently has been a challenge for wax. Thinking back to what I did differently last year when I had less of a problem, the main difference is now I am using pure wax with no additives, both in the pot and for drip on top ups, while then I was using the OZ Cycle pot mix with PTFE powder and mainly Tru Tension All Weather as a drip on. Maybe the old antipodean canine killer had something after all, despite what THY says.

For others questioning squeaking and rust. If I don't wash and dry my bike the same day as a wet ride there'll be rust spots on the chain and cassette the next day. Leave it a couple of days and the rust will be significant and inside the chain. Damp chains, even those with rust, (at least the ones I use - genuine Force AXS flat top) don't squeak. If I leave a chain too long without waxing then it will start to make a slushy noise during a ride, but they rarely squeak, if ever. The best indicator that the chain is contaminated after a wet ride I've found is to roll the links from side to side on the big ring with your fingers and you hear and feel all the grit that's been carried into the chain.

I'm going to continue waxing despite the setback. I'm either going to go back to adding PTFE into pure paraffin or buy a bag of Silca Secret. I'll also go back to Tru Tension All Weather for a drip on, unless anyone has a better suggestions for wet weather use?

[voicycle]

Not to put you off trying, but I’m using MSW so I’m not sure how much difference the additives will make.

Tru-tension all weather does make a big difference though. Definitely picks up more contaminants and is a bit more gunky to clean, but I guess if it’s between that and ending up wax-less after the first 60 minutes then that’s the way to go.

I can’t remember how well a boil rinse works on that stuff if there’s no layer of hot melt underneath it, but if it’s sufficient then I think I’ll be happy with TT AW as my primary mixed and poor conditions lube. The main thing I want to avoid is having to go back to degreasers and mineral spirits and all that mess.

Also ‘slushy’ is the perfect descriptor for that sound! Not all that different from the sound that tells me it’s time to re-wax the chain on the indoor trainer. (That’s the only other major own-goal I’ve made in my wax journey - assumed a waxed chain could do nearly indefinite time indoors without re-dipping and so I just ran it for like 3 months without a re-lube which took me all the way to the 0.5 mark. Now I put the turbo chain back in the slow cooker once a week or so, which requires no time at all really.)


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[MrRolandos]

For winter rides I just use squirt, cleaning every ride and rewaxing isnt worth it for me. Msw isnt even that mocht faster anyway. For summer/dry rides it works really good yeah. But you would need atleast 2/3 chains to be efficiënt

[carmody]

I waxed the chain for the first time today. Unfortunately, my slow cooker has heated the wax much more than I wanted, almost to 120 Celsius. Is the wax still usable or is it no longer usable ? Looks ok for now.

[voicycle]

I waxed the chain for the first time today. Unfortunately, my slow cooker has heated the wax much more than I wanted, almost to 120 Celsius. Is the wax still usable or is it no longer usable ? Looks ok for now.

See bottom of p20 through middle of p22. Specifically the middle of 22: https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... -v1.3b.pdf

Sounds like the red flag you're looking for is a yellow colour to the wax, which would mean it's damaged.

[carmody]

I waxed the chain for the first time today. Unfortunately, my slow cooker has heated the wax much more than I wanted, almost to 120 Celsius. Is the wax still usable or is it no longer usable ? Looks ok for now.

See bottom of p20 through middle of p22. Specifically the middle of 22: https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... -v1.3b.pdf

Sounds like the red flag you're looking for is a yellow colour to the wax, which would mean it's damaged.

Thanks for the link! I have to wait for it to cool down. However, it is MSW and then probably still looks black because of additives

[BdaGhisallo]

I waxed the chain for the first time today. Unfortunately, my slow cooker has heated the wax much more than I wanted, almost to 120 Celsius. Is the wax still usable or is it no longer usable ? Looks ok for now.

I did that once with Silca hot melt wax and it was just fine. I even waxed the chains with the wax still at about 230-240F to see how they would run compared to the normal waxing temperature. I noticed no difference.