My adventures in chain waxing: goals, reviews, suggestions...

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jajr1999
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:51 pm

by jajr1999

TheBelgian wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:35 pm
jajr1999 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:57 pm
I have gotten into Immersive Waxing by following the Bicilab and ZeroFrictionCycling videos. After cleaning with UFO Cleaner both the chain and the rest of the components, when I install the chain, it sounds like this (I think the chain gear noise is too loud for a freshly waxed chain).
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vyQbfCJDp1wXRmyx8
I have the same chain and groupset, and it's not a quiet combination, I can confirm. It's even worse after a fresh hot wax. For the first couple of km it sounds as if the derailleur is not aligned correctly. Afterwards it gets better, but it's never a very quiet system. Sounds normal to me. First time I installed it (I built the bike myself) I turned back home to realign the derailleurs because of the noise, but everything was correct. If you look around online you'll see a lot of people complain about noisy 105 Di2 2x12 drivetrains.
Thank you so much. I was going completely crazy.

by Weenie


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djb444
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:10 am

by djb444

jajr1999 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:44 pm
TheBelgian wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:35 pm
jajr1999 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:57 pm
I have gotten into Immersive Waxing by following the Bicilab and ZeroFrictionCycling videos. After cleaning with UFO Cleaner both the chain and the rest of the components, when I install the chain, it sounds like this (I think the chain gear noise is too loud for a freshly waxed chain).
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vyQbfCJDp1wXRmyx8
I have the same chain and groupset, and it's not a quiet combination, I can confirm. It's even worse after a fresh hot wax. For the first couple of km it sounds as if the derailleur is not aligned correctly. Afterwards it gets better, but it's never a very quiet system. Sounds normal to me. First time I installed it (I built the bike myself) I turned back home to realign the derailleurs because of the noise, but everything was correct. If you look around online you'll see a lot of people complain about noisy 105 Di2 2x12 drivetrains.
Thank you so much. I was going completely crazy.
I have a different experience. I'm using the same setup as you, 105 di2 with a 105 chain and it is completely silent for at least 300 km. I don't use the same products as you though. I use plain paraffine wax, and i have cleaned my chain with wasbenzine (gasoline) Soaked it for at least 24 hours. After that i cleaned it further in a ultrasonic cleaner with diluted citrus cleaner (Dasty). And then lastly i clean the chain from leftover cleaning agent by doing a final cycle in the ultrasonic cleaner with plain water.

TheBelgian
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:09 am

by TheBelgian

jajr1999 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:44 pm
TheBelgian wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:35 pm
jajr1999 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:57 pm
I have gotten into Immersive Waxing by following the Bicilab and ZeroFrictionCycling videos. After cleaning with UFO Cleaner both the chain and the rest of the components, when I install the chain, it sounds like this (I think the chain gear noise is too loud for a freshly waxed chain).
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vyQbfCJDp1wXRmyx8
I have the same chain and groupset, and it's not a quiet combination, I can confirm. It's even worse after a fresh hot wax. For the first couple of km it sounds as if the derailleur is not aligned correctly. Afterwards it gets better, but it's never a very quiet system. Sounds normal to me. First time I installed it (I built the bike myself) I turned back home to realign the derailleurs because of the noise, but everything was correct. If you look around online you'll see a lot of people complain about noisy 105 Di2 2x12 drivetrains.
Thank you so much. I was going completely crazy.
The noise does get better with time. Mine was a brand new groupset. Things need to wear in a bit.

TheBelgian
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:09 am

by TheBelgian

Anyone here us an ultrasonic cleaner?

I just bought one from Amazon. a 2 liter one. Before I just dumped my chain in a small pot with water, boiled it for 30 seconds, wipe off, fresh water, boil again, wipe off again and done. On our induction stove the water cooks in less than a minute.

I just started using the ultrasonic cleaner, and boy, it's a bit of a disappointment. The thing takes ages to heat up (protip, don't put cold water in it, it needs 20 minutes to get to 60C), even with hot tap water (which apparently is around 50C) it takes ages to get to somewhere around 60. Then the cleaning itself: I use a product specifically for an ultrasonic cleaner and had it run for about 10 minutes. The chain still looks dirty. Water was pretty dark. So I wiped off the chain, threw away the water and off we go again for a second round of heating up, cleaning chain for 10 minutes.

TBH I don't see the advantage of using one of these devices. As far as I can tell, simply boiling the chain and wiping it off works as well and is A LOT faster.

TidyDinosaur
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:48 pm
Location: Central EU

by TidyDinosaur

TheBelgian wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2024 8:24 pm
Anyone here us an ultrasonic cleaner?

I just bought one from Amazon. a 2 liter one. Before I just dumped my chain in a small pot with water, boiled it for 30 seconds, wipe off, fresh water, boil again, wipe off again and done. On our induction stove the water cooks in less than a minute.

I just started using the ultrasonic cleaner, and boy, it's a bit of a disappointment. The thing takes ages to heat up (protip, don't put cold water in it, it needs 20 minutes to get to 60C), even with hot tap water (which apparently is around 50C) it takes ages to get to somewhere around 60. Then the cleaning itself: I use a product specifically for an ultrasonic cleaner and had it run for about 10 minutes. The chain still looks dirty. Water was pretty dark. So I wiped off the chain, threw away the water and off we go again for a second round of heating up, cleaning chain for 10 minutes.

TBH I don't see the advantage of using one of these devices. As far as I can tell, simply boiling the chain and wiping it off works as well and is A LOT faster.
The temp is probably too low to melt the wax, so it will not come off in the cleaner.

TheBelgian
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:09 am

by TheBelgian

Well apparently it did. I just threw the chain after 2 rounds of ultrasonic cleaning in my pot and cooked it. Normally there is a layer of black molten wax floating on the water, but not this time.

But still, even after 2 rounds in the ultrasonic, and 1 round in the pot, there still is dirt on the rag I use to wipe them down. Would have thought the ultrasonic cleaner would take care of that more easily.

User avatar
C36
Posts: 2555
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

ArtV wrote:
JMeinholdt wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:41 pm
izy wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:50 am
superpiki wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:59 pm
Do you have any experience with waxing a rainbow SRAM Red flat top 12-speed chain? Are there any pros or cons over a regular silver chain in regards to waxing?
Cons since the links have holes in them at the pins my OCD made meanually push out the wax on each link there
This. Having a chain with hollow pins is practically pointless for waxing unless you want to spend the time to clean out each of the pins every time you wax. If you don't, it defeats the weight saving purpose.
I am OCD enough to push the wax out of the hollow pins as well. But I have to ask, is anyone waxing their chain for weight savings? I'm as 'weight weenie' as anyone but I can't imgine that tiny bit of wax that is in the hollow pins actually impacts anything performance wise.........
The very first time I waxed a DA chain I had the curiosity to remove it… i never repeated it.

Image

jajr1999
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:51 pm

by jajr1999

TheBelgian wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2024 8:14 am
jajr1999 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:44 pm
TheBelgian wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2024 4:35 pm
jajr1999 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:57 pm
I have gotten into Immersive Waxing by following the Bicilab and ZeroFrictionCycling videos. After cleaning with UFO Cleaner both the chain and the rest of the components, when I install the chain, it sounds like this (I think the chain gear noise is too loud for a freshly waxed chain).
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vyQbfCJDp1wXRmyx8
I have the same chain and groupset, and it's not a quiet combination, I can confirm. It's even worse after a fresh hot wax. For the first couple of km it sounds as if the derailleur is not aligned correctly. Afterwards it gets better, but it's never a very quiet system. Sounds normal to me. First time I installed it (I built the bike myself) I turned back home to realign the derailleurs because of the noise, but everything was correct. If you look around online you'll see a lot of people complain about noisy 105 Di2 2x12 drivetrains.
Thank you so much. I was going completely crazy.
The noise does get better with time. Mine was a brand new groupset. Things need to wear in a bit.
Thank you.
I finally solved the problem, since I changed the cassette on the recommendation of Adam from ZeroFrictionCycling and he also told me that it would need at least 500 km for the chains to become quieter.

TheBelgian
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:09 am

by TheBelgian

C36 wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2024 12:41 am
The very first time I waxed a DA chain I had the curiosity to remove it… i never repeated it.

Image
:lol:

jajr1999
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:51 pm

by jajr1999

Another thing that I found especially curious about Immersive Waxing is how loose the chain is after having cleaned it with UFO Cleaner. When the chain has less wax or you are going to put it in the Crockpot, it looks like it is a worn one.

drc
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:45 am

by drc

I started hotwaxing 3 chains using MSW and so far I'm not impressed with the longevity of a single application. After roughly 60 km of riding in dry conditions the chain becomes noisy, after 120 km it sounds like it already needs lubrication and after 150 km it sounds really dry and almost crunchy under load. I had been using Squirt before and was also fed up with the gunk build up.

For reference, I'm using
- a new R8000 Ultegra cassette (11s)
- three new HG701 Ultegra chains (11s)
- degreased using the Silca chain stripper, washed afterwards multiple times with warm water and blown dry with an air compressor
- thoroughly cleaned my chainrings
- left each chain for at least 5 minutes in the hot wax for it to get warm, swishing it around

I tried topping up with Silca Super Secret Chain lube, but I feel like I get maybe 120 km out of an application. Before applying wax again, my chain checker already is almost at the 0.25 mark of wear.

Has anyone had more luck with MSW and Ultegra 11 speed? I was expecting to get at least 200-300 km until the chain feels crunchy

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 13066
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

drc wrote:
Thu May 02, 2024 8:27 am
I started hotwaxing 3 chains using MSW and so far I'm not impressed with the longevity of a single application. After roughly 60 km of riding in dry conditions the chain becomes noisy, after 120 km it sounds like it already needs lubrication and after 150 km it sounds really dry and almost crunchy under load. I had been using Squirt before and was also fed up with the gunk build up.

For reference, I'm using
- a new R8000 Ultegra cassette (11s)
- three new HG701 Ultegra chains (11s)
- degreased using the Silca chain stripper, washed afterwards multiple times with warm water and blown dry with an air compressor
- thoroughly cleaned my chainrings
- left each chain for at least 5 minutes in the hot wax for it to get warm, swishing it around

I tried topping up with Silca Super Secret Chain lube, but I feel like I get maybe 120 km out of an application. Before applying wax again, my chain checker already is almost at the 0.25 mark of wear.

Has anyone had more luck with MSW and Ultegra 11 speed? I was expecting to get at least 200-300 km until the chain feels crunchy

My waxed chains are noisy for the first 15-30 minutes of riding depending on the ambient riding temperature, then they are what I consider quiet for probably 200km. They do become a little chattery after the exterior wax sloughs off, but that has no affect on anything. I run a waxed chain for about 400km before topping off with UFO Drip, then I go another 250km on that.

Are you using the Park Tool CC-2 chain checker or something. If so, it sucks. Get a 3-prong go/no-go tool like the CC-4.

drc
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:45 am

by drc

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu May 02, 2024 8:39 am
My waxed chains are noisy for the first 15-30 minutes of riding depending on the ambient riding temperature, then they are what I consider quiet for probably 200km. They do become a little chattery after the exterior wax sloughs off, but that has no affect on anything. I run a waxed chain for about 400km before topping off with UFO Drip, then I go another 250km on that.

Are you using the Park Tool CC-2 chain checker or something. If so, it sucks. Get a 3-prong go/no-go tool like the CC-4.
I'm actually using a 3-prong checker, but it's a cheap one and may not be too accurate.

Anyway, your numbers are pretty much what I expect from hot melt waxing. I'll do the second round of rewaxing soon and hopefully the drivetrain just need a break-in period to stay smooth for longer. But as it stands right now, I'm pretty annoyed. I'll try to record a video with sound at some point.

jajr1999
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:51 pm

by jajr1999

drc wrote:
Thu May 02, 2024 8:27 am
I started hotwaxing 3 chains using MSW and so far I'm not impressed with the longevity of a single application. After roughly 60 km of riding in dry conditions the chain becomes noisy, after 120 km it sounds like it already needs lubrication and after 150 km it sounds really dry and almost crunchy under load. I had been using Squirt before and was also fed up with the gunk build up.

For reference, I'm using
- a new R8000 Ultegra cassette (11s)
- three new HG701 Ultegra chains (11s)
- degreased using the Silca chain stripper, washed afterwards multiple times with warm water and blown dry with an air compressor
- thoroughly cleaned my chainrings
- left each chain for at least 5 minutes in the hot wax for it to get warm, swishing it around

I tried topping up with Silca Super Secret Chain lube, but I feel like I get maybe 120 km out of an application. Before applying wax again, my chain checker already is almost at the 0.25 mark of wear.

Has anyone had more luck with MSW and Ultegra 11 speed? I was expecting to get at least 200-300 km until the chain feels crunchy
Something similar happened to me with Silca. In my case with Shimano 105 Di2. I even wrote to Adam from Zero Friction Cycling telling him that I thought it was too noisy for what was said about the smoothness of Immersive Waxing.
However, I notice that the first 80-100kms are smooth. From 100 to 250 (when I wax again), the sound is louder, but it doesn't sound like a dry chain, but rather like a gear.
Adam also told me that during the first 500-1000kms the chain may be in the process of "accommodating" to the cassette, so the noise may be greater.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



whataboutEee
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:55 pm

by whataboutEee

My issue with my adventure with Silca waxing has been that it just doesn't seem to be as smooth as Rock n'roll is. I always strip a new chain of factory lube, so even before I started immersive waxing, the initial prep work was the same. But even after a couple hours on a newly waxed chain, it just doesn't spin very well. When I spin my cranks to zero my powermeter, i would get at least a couple revolutions when using Rock N Roll, but with the waxed chain, I'm lucky to get 1/2 a revolution with the same effort. I realize that what seems good back pedaling in the stand isn't necessarily the same thing that is good under load, but I can't get it out of my head and I'm convinced it doesn't pedal as smooth as rock n Roll did.
In short, I'm not getting the silky smooth pedaling that everyone is claiming. The chain runs silent, and it shifts noticeably better as a result of the increased lateral stiffness with the wax, and overall it is such an easy system that I want to keep doing it, but I just can't get past the sensation that it isn't as smooth/efficient.

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