Apparently it's $165/300g in the US. Still, $165 buys more than 5 years worth of Gulf wax if I partition out 300g at a time and toss it every. single. month.
My adventures in chain waxing: goals, reviews, suggestions...
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Apparently it's $165/300g in the US. Still, $165 buys more than 5 years worth of Gulf wax if I partition out 300g at a time and toss it every. single. month.
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Update on Rex Black Diamond hot waxTobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:57 pmblaugrana wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:14 pmSilca just released a new wax with a claimed 0.5W saving over their existing hot melt wax. Also 200€ for 300g, this is not a typo. Not that I would even consider it if it was a third of the price, but it would be interesting to know if it actually works better, or if it's just a sequel to the sealant fiasco.
The problem with molten wax treatments is contamination of the wax pot over time. For $200, I can buy 23kg of Gulf brand paraffin and swap out the wax every couple months and it would likely result in similar efficiency just because the wax is cleaner.
Now you we could discuss filtering out contaminants in the various commercial wax products, but any such filtration would also attract the lubricious solids.
I will continue to use plain paraffin with UFO Drip top-ups.
We start deliveries on week 3/2023 and start taking preorders soon. We have been waiting confirmation from ZFC before we make the final recipe. Now I think we are on the safe side even Adam haven't got time to run throuht the whole test protocol. As TobinhatesYou mentioned the problem is contamination of the wax over time. Rex Black Diamond Hot Wax comes in box that contains 11 "base wax" blocks and one "race wax" block that contains all the insoluble additives. User can choose whether they mix the 1 race wax block in the 11 base wax. In that case you get high performance wax blend. That's the easy option and working methods are same as hot waxing is used at the moment. Second option is that you mix the Race wax block with 4 base wax blocks. There you get the optimal wax-to-additives ratio and performance. With the remaining base blocks we recommend it to be used for first hot waxing for the chain and after that you wax the chain with the race blend. This saves the race blend from contamination.
www.rex.fi/en/bike
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What is the general consesus regarding reusing quick links? Would like to try waxing but put off by the idea of using a new quick link each time. I know there's the KMC one which is meant to be reusable a few times. Do people just buy a few spare quick links and change them out each time they re wax their chain?
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Use it until it no longer has a discernible snap when you close it. Or just buy a Connex chain (if 11-speed or lower) and reuse that link forever. For the most part the Connex link will not wear out because the loaded sliding bits are the rollers and the the shoulders on the inner plates.Simon430 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:31 amWhat is the general consesus regarding reusing quick links? Would like to try waxing but put off by the idea of using a new quick link each time. I know there's the KMC one which is meant to be reusable a few times. Do people just buy a few spare quick links and change them out each time they re wax their chain?
Regarding fresh wax contamination by the “old” one. I don’t see how it will happen if you properly “dewax” the chain (i drop the chains in large amount of boiled water, that removes all the wax that was exposed to elements).
I get it’s an extra step over the simple “drop the chain in the wax and let the contamination dilute in the fresh wax. But usually by the time the wax is melted my chains have been cleaned.
I get it’s an extra step over the simple “drop the chain in the wax and let the contamination dilute in the fresh wax. But usually by the time the wax is melted my chains have been cleaned.
Last edited by C36 on Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Have you tried any of Silca's new hot wax with graphene?
Could you give your experience?:
https://silcavelo.eu/products/silca-hot ... %3D.SMHxdB
Could you give your experience?:
https://silcavelo.eu/products/silca-hot ... %3D.SMHxdB
Do you know if ZFC published anything about it? I can't seem to find anything apart from the 2017 review and I see no mention of the updated version inside.TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 7:13 pm
ZFC also tested the newer MSW as lower wearing than the original Silca Hot Melt in all but the last, most extreme contamination block. Considering that block is equivalent to riding through a sand shower, I kinda dismiss it as I will never encounter those conditions.
You can just open the lubricant testing file: https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/lubetesting/
Great stuff, I'll wait for the release and will start my waxing adventure with your product I think.JLiukkonen wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:53 amUpdate on Rex Black Diamond hot waxTobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:57 pmblaugrana wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:14 pmSilca just released a new wax with a claimed 0.5W saving over their existing hot melt wax. Also 200€ for 300g, this is not a typo. Not that I would even consider it if it was a third of the price, but it would be interesting to know if it actually works better, or if it's just a sequel to the sealant fiasco.
The problem with molten wax treatments is contamination of the wax pot over time. For $200, I can buy 23kg of Gulf brand paraffin and swap out the wax every couple months and it would likely result in similar efficiency just because the wax is cleaner.
Now you we could discuss filtering out contaminants in the various commercial wax products, but any such filtration would also attract the lubricious solids.
I will continue to use plain paraffin with UFO Drip top-ups.
We start deliveries on week 3/2023 and start taking preorders soon. We have been waiting confirmation from ZFC before we make the final recipe. Now I think we are on the safe side even Adam haven't got time to run throuht the whole test protocol. As TobinhatesYou mentioned the problem is contamination of the wax over time. Rex Black Diamond Hot Wax comes in box that contains 11 "base wax" blocks and one "race wax" block that contains all the insoluble additives. User can choose whether they mix the 1 race wax block in the 11 base wax. In that case you get high performance wax blend. That's the easy option and working methods are same as hot waxing is used at the moment. Second option is that you mix the Race wax block with 4 base wax blocks. There you get the optimal wax-to-additives ratio and performance. With the remaining base blocks we recommend it to be used for first hot waxing for the chain and after that you wax the chain with the race blend. This saves the race blend from contamination.
What's the race block purpose exactly? Is it just a way to get a more efficient chain?
Also, what about price? Can we expect something in the ballpark of Silca's Hot Melt or MSW?
No, the pins wear out too.TobinHatesYou wrote:Use it until it no longer has a discernible snap when you close it. Or just buy a Connex chain (if 11-speed or lower) and reuse that link forever. For the most part the Connex link will not wear out because the loaded sliding bits are the rollers and the the shoulders on the inner plates.Simon430 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:31 amWhat is the general consesus regarding reusing quick links? Would like to try waxing but put off by the idea of using a new quick link each time. I know there's the KMC one which is meant to be reusable a few times. Do people just buy a few spare quick links and change them out each time they re wax their chain?
@S1inker,
All the tests are here
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... er-22.xlsx
As of now MS New formula leads the wear test in front of Silca (wax), Effetto Mariposa (drips) and Ceramic Speed UFO (Drips). Need to look at the data for more details, depending of your riding conditions, other products also reach the maximum "virtual chain lifespan" (Rex if you ride in dry clean conditions for example).
For durability, Rex is leading by a massive difference (way north 1000km), MS reaching 600km and Silca 430.
All the tests are here
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... er-22.xlsx
As of now MS New formula leads the wear test in front of Silca (wax), Effetto Mariposa (drips) and Ceramic Speed UFO (Drips). Need to look at the data for more details, depending of your riding conditions, other products also reach the maximum "virtual chain lifespan" (Rex if you ride in dry clean conditions for example).
For durability, Rex is leading by a massive difference (way north 1000km), MS reaching 600km and Silca 430.
The Rex wax box contains 12 wax blocks. The 1 black block contains the "Black Diamond" additives and is melted together with either 4 white blocks for ZFC record-breaking "ultra endurance" blend, or with 11 blocks for "everyday high performance" blend. Even the 1+11 blend is way ahead of MSW and Silca's test results in ZFC Single Application Longevity test, but the 1+4 blend is even farther ahead with its result of 5000 km's to wear allowance limit.
Melting the 1 black additives block with 4 white blocks leaves 7 blocks to be used a a cleaning / pre-pre wax. Even if a chain has been boiled in water for a while, it will leave visible contamination when it it put in white pre-prep wax. Using the 2-step waxing with 7 white blocks ensures that the 1+4 wax stays clean in use. And staying clean means staying high performance. To put it shortly: If you want to keep it simple, just melt all and use it like Silca and MSW. But if you want the best possible performance, use the 2-step method. Keeping the additives in a separate block also ensures lab-grade production quality in mass production.
The price of a 480 gram package will be sightly above Silca's Hot Melt but still way below their new wax.
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When is this stuff going to be available?
Minimum bike categories required in the stable:
Aero bike | GC bike | GC rim bike | Climbing bike | Climbing rim bike | Classics bike | Gravel bike | TT bike | Indoors bike
Aero bike | GC bike | GC rim bike | Climbing bike | Climbing rim bike | Classics bike | Gravel bike | TT bike | Indoors bike
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
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Thanks for the information.eurperg wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:30 pmThe Rex wax box contains 12 wax blocks. The 1 black block contains the "Black Diamond" additives and is melted together with either 4 white blocks for ZFC record-breaking "ultra endurance" blend, or with 11 blocks for "everyday high performance" blend. Even the 1+11 blend is way ahead of MSW and Silca's test results in ZFC Single Application Longevity test, but the 1+4 blend is even farther ahead with its result of 5000 km's to wear allowance limit.
Melting the 1 black additives block with 4 white blocks leaves 7 blocks to be used a a cleaning / pre-pre wax. Even if a chain has been boiled in water for a while, it will leave visible contamination when it it put in white pre-prep wax. Using the 2-step waxing with 7 white blocks ensures that the 1+4 wax stays clean in use. And staying clean means staying high performance. To put it shortly: If you want to keep it simple, just melt all and use it like Silca and MSW. But if you want the best possible performance, use the 2-step method. Keeping the additives in a separate block also ensures lab-grade production quality in mass production.
The price of a 480 gram package will be sightly above Silca's Hot Melt but still way below their new wax.
I don't think I'm ready yet to get two slow cookers just for this application, so I'll probably just go 11+1 directly, but it does sound really promising.
Week 3 of 2023 apparently.