New Giant TCR Advanced announced

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robeambro
Posts: 1829
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

What I don't understand is that Giant seem to not follow a coherent policy. IIRC, the new Defy had integrated cables. Now they launch a new TCR and it doesn't have integrated cables? I guess it would have made the bike too heavy, but still - quite a puzzling choice.

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integration
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:08 pm

by integration

robeambro wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:26 pm
What I don't understand is that Giant seem to not follow a coherent policy. IIRC, the new Defy had integrated cables. Now they launch a new TCR and it doesn't have integrated cables? I guess it would have made the bike too heavy, but still - quite a puzzling choice.
Their marketing guy said they foregone full integration with the TCR so that it's easier to work on. I personally agree with that stance as I do like to work on my bike, yet was not born as a particularly gifted mechanic.

Maybe the aero drag from some exposed cabling ain't as bad as what everyone thought it was or how they want us to believe it is?

Reno
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:00 am

by Reno

robeambro wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:26 pm
What I don't understand is that Giant seem to not follow a coherent policy. IIRC, the new Defy had integrated cables. Now they launch a new TCR and it doesn't have integrated cables? I guess it would have made the bike too heavy, but still - quite a puzzling choice.
If you read the Cyclingtips article linked on previous page you may understand.

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kgt
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

Since this is clearly Giant's top climbing, do-it-all bike there is absolutely no need for integrated cables. I agree that it would add to a nicer and more contemporary look in terms of practicality and function it is not the best idea. Integrated cables or not is a marketing driven choice anyway. Disc brakes are way less aero than a few inches of exposed cables.

robeambro
Posts: 1829
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

integration wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:35 pm
robeambro wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:26 pm
What I don't understand is that Giant seem to not follow a coherent policy. IIRC, the new Defy had integrated cables. Now they launch a new TCR and it doesn't have integrated cables? I guess it would have made the bike too heavy, but still - quite a puzzling choice.
Their marketing guy said they foregone full integration with the TCR so that it's easier to work on. I personally agree with that stance as I do like to work on my bike, yet was not born as a particularly gifted mechanic.

Maybe the aero drag from some exposed cabling ain't as bad as what everyone thought it was or how they want us to believe it is?
I understand the motivation, but it's a bit silly to pursue one objective for the Defy (internal cabling is cool, sexy, aero!) and then U-turn with the TCR (exposed cables are easier!). They're both valid arguments, but usually manufacturers decide to pursue one and stick to it (eg Specialized with "aero is everything".. It would be weird to see them launch the new SL7 with exposed cables)

That said I also agree, I couldn't be less bothered by a couple cables in sight - at least with modern disc / electronic bikes, it's not that much really.

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

kgt wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:49 pm
Since this is clearly Giant's top climbing, do-it-all bike there is absolutely no need for integrated cables. I agree that it would add to a nicer and more contemporary look in terms of practicality and function it is not the best idea. Integrated cables or not is a marketing driven choice anyway. Disc brakes are way less aero than a few inches of exposed cables.

Disc brakes are way more aero than caliper brakes because they permit a complete redesign of the bike with greater tire clearance between the fork legs and thus less turbulence.

uraqt
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:53 am

by uraqt

Disc brakes are way more aero than caliper brakes because they permit a complete redesign of the bike with greater tire clearance between the fork legs and thus less turbulence.
I don't think that is an established fact, if it was all the modern track bikes would have went wide fork years ago and current the only wide fork is the Hope bike and they said it was to keep the turbulent air inline with the riders legs. Modern track bikes are bouncing back and forth beteen wide and narrow forks.

C

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

uraqt wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:40 pm
Disc brakes are way more aero than caliper brakes because they permit a complete redesign of the bike with greater tire clearance between the fork legs and thus less turbulence.
I don't think that is an established fact, if it was all the modern track bikes would have went wide fork years ago and current the only wide fork is the Hope bike and they said it was to keep the turbulent air inline with the riders legs. Modern track bikes are bouncing back and forth beteen wide and narrow forks.

C

Neither is what kgt said. I was just playing his game since he randomly decided to shit on disc brakes in a thread about a bike that still comes in a rim-brake version. Time for him to accept that disc brakes exist and move on.

Brands like Orbea, Specialized, and even Giant are definitely experimenting with bowing out their fork legs, but they still have to deal with the UCI approval process and its draconian ruleset.

uraqt
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:53 am

by uraqt

Fair enough!!! : ) Don't get me started about the UCI, the Teams and Riders should have forced them out years and years ago!!! Some of my best rants are againt the UCI.

C

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kgt
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Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

@TobinHatesYou
Maybe the quarantine is too much for you but all this is in your head.

guadzilla
Posts: 273
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:55 pm

by guadzilla

robeambro wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:10 pm
I understand the motivation, but it's a bit silly to pursue one objective for the Defy (internal cabling is cool, sexy, aero!) and then U-turn with the TCR (exposed cables are easier!). They're both valid arguments, but usually manufacturers decide to pursue one and stick to it (eg Specialized with "aero is everything".. It would be weird to see them launch the new SL7 with exposed cables)
To me, it makes absolutely logical sense and clearly differentiates the TCR from the Defy.

Want a max aero bike or want fully concealed cables == get the Defy
Want a light, stiff all-round bike and dont care about the cables == get the TCR

Yes, i realize that there are people who want a single do-it-all bike, but given that Giant has 2 different top-end models, it makes sense for them make a clear use-case for each. If the TCR becomes the do-it-all bike, then why have the Defy in the line-up?

Karvalo
Posts: 3444
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

guadzilla wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:39 am
To me, it makes absolutely logical sense and clearly differentiates the TCR from the Defy.

Want a max aero bike or want fully concealed cables == get the Defy
You may be thinking of the Propel. The Defy is an endurance bike, it's clearly different to the TCR regardless of cabling.

jlok
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

kgt wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:49 pm
Since this is clearly Giant's top climbing, do-it-all bike there is absolutely no need for integrated cables. I agree that it would add to a nicer and more contemporary look in terms of practicality and function it is not the best idea. Integrated cables or not is a marketing driven choice anyway. Disc brakes are way less aero than a few inches of exposed cables.
Makes sense. Good to see Giant to not making the same mistake. Their internal routing stem is really ugly and heavy af. Shouldn't care aero too much on TCR.

However, they keep using the same fork rake across the sizes. It's a big disappointment. They might do it for keeping the cost to a minimum. Maybe they don't care about the effects of frame geometry.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

bosco2814
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:21 am

by bosco2814

Is there any difference between adv pro (non-isp) vs adv sl(isp) on performance?

I’m considering upgrade my sl5 to tcr disc.


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C36
Posts: 2471
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

TobinHatesYou wrote:
kgt wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:49 pm
Since this is clearly Giant's top climbing, do-it-all bike there is absolutely no need for integrated cables. I agree that it would add to a nicer and more contemporary look in terms of practicality and function it is not the best idea. Integrated cables or not is a marketing driven choice anyway. Disc brakes are way less aero than a few inches of exposed cables.

Disc brakes are way more aero than caliper brakes because they permit a complete redesign of the bike with greater tire clearance between the fork legs and thus less turbulence.
Very theoretical and not proven bedside marketing claims. Disc wheels have more drags (translation and rotational). So far all bikes tested in both versions have more drag in discs.

Now back to the bike. Both options is lovely and aligned with their new wheel range. The weight is impressive for a disc frame and curious what a rim frame will show on the scale.

Regarding their stiffness claims I don’t ever recall they matched independent testing. Were in the leading group but not ahead of the pack.

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Last edited by C36 on Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

by Weenie


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