Ceramicspeed Driven - shifting teaser

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HammerTime2
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by HammerTime2

otnemem wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:37 pm
If it can handle up to 200W let's see it being actually used by someone. I'm ok with seeing it on rollers and I'm even ok with them slowing down to change gear. I'll wait.

In five years we're going to be talking about this twice a year like "remember that ceramic speed drivetrain? lol".
How about in 3 1/3 years after all the preceding posts in this thread?

In April 2021, Driven unveiled its new Quick Release investment pitch, which quickly released 1 million dollars from seed "investors". This video looks like a now very dated SPAC pitch, talking about the massive Total Addressable Market (TAM), and the significant share of that TAM the company is going to get.


There were multiple cycling press articles touting that investment opportunity
Cycling Tips: WANT TO BACK CERAMICSPEED’S DRIVEN SHAFT-DRIVE CONCEPT? NOW YOU CAN
There doesn't seem to be much in the way of updates since then. Did investors get the shaft on the shaft drive concept?

otnemem
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by otnemem

I don't know how it's going from investors side of things, but I certainly haven't any further proof that Driven actually works. They have now had YEARS to show us that this drivetrain actually works. They haven't even put out a single speed version performing at any serious level, let alone a multi-gear version.
I don't see any advances that would make me want to invest in this company.

As a cycling enthusiast, I still have doubts that this can work in its "present" state. I'm guessing they still haven't figured out a way for the system to be able to cope with the range of torque it needs to and that gear changes are a major snag everytime. Happy to be proven wrong anytime... and still waiting.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Is this also ending as vaporware....
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

Butcher
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by Butcher

And a bad investment for those that put their hard earned money into.

I like seeing the envelope pushed, but this was bad from the very beginning. But, what the heck to I know, I am just a butcher.

MichaelB
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by MichaelB

Sometimes, weird ideas need to remain as that.

If you invest, it's like the crowd funding - some work, some don't.

I thought driven was one of those that needed to remain an idea.

calicyclist
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by calicyclist

I am not an engineer and have no idea if this will work and all the people commenting in this thread sound a lot smarter than me on the subject. The marketing video does look cool tho. Mainly just from the idea that it could be sealed and I could avoid having to clean the chain all the time. I would love for this to be a real thing. Sadly, after read this thread, doesn't sound like it will ever be.
Argonaut RM3 | Pivot Trail 429

RDY
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by RDY

I suspect one of the problems from their side of things is that even if it works really well, they operate on a very low cost, high selling price model, with likely very low cost of product development. The shaft drive will necessarily be high cost, and high development cost, meaning that price would probably need to be stratospheric. They'd also have to overcome a very sceptical market, unlike the OSPW & ceramic bearing snake oil that a big chunk of the market believes in. Would it ever be worth it for them? I suspect they regret undertaking the project, and particularly the investment. The product is not a good fit at all for them IMO.

blaugrana
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by blaugrana

RDY wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:48 am
I suspect one of the problems from their side of things is that even if it works really well, they operate on a very low cost, high selling price model, with likely very low cost of product development. The shaft drive will necessarily be high cost, and high development cost, meaning that price would probably need to be stratospheric. They'd also have to overcome a very sceptical market, unlike the OSPW & ceramic bearing snake oil that a big chunk of the market believes in. Would it ever be worth it for them? I suspect they regret undertaking the project, and particularly the investment. The product is not a good fit at all for them IMO.
Those are all very good points, and that would be even assuming that the product works and is faster than regular drivetrains. And given how little news there have been in recent years, I'm very skeptical of that. A normal transmission with a chain is already exceptionally efficient, especially if you are on one of the fast setups (i.e. Dura Ace chain, immersion wax, etc.). Probably their tests where the system has 50% less drag are extremely optimistic, and have some unrealistic optimizations (like no seals on the bearings) that wouldn't carry over under normal conditions. It would also have to work well at high torques, and it should be very robust in a lot of difficult situations like shifting under load, riding over rough terrain, or both at the same time.

Then there is also the issue of frame compatibility. First you would need at least one manufacturer to make a version of their aero bike compatible with the sytem, and that's very expensive and a deal breaker unless it is expected to sell really well. Of course getting custom frame builders on board would be easier, but if the whole point is to go after marginal gains, you really need compatibility with the fastest aero bikes out there.

There is also the issue of getting UCI approval to use it on races, but that probably wouldn't be too much of an problem (maybe they would be concerned with the exposed teeth, but they could even be covered if necessary). It's still just a (potentially more efficient) transmission, it doesn't fundamentally change how the bike works and it doesn't make riders look weird.

calicyclist
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by calicyclist

blaugrana wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:46 pm
There is also the issue of getting UCI approval to use it on races, but that probably wouldn't be too much of an problem (maybe they would be concerned with the exposed teeth, but they could even be covered if necessary). It's still just a (potentially more efficient) transmission, it doesn't fundamentally change how the bike works and it doesn't make riders look weird.
I think if they covered it then the UCI would deem it a fairing and probably not allow it as an unfair advantage which is where this all kinda breaks down IMO. Also, when you're in the pro peloton, you have a whole mechanic team tending to your bike every day and ensuring its sparkling clean to start the day, so the reduced maintenance doesn't likely matter.

But if they could keep the weight similar to current tech I'd be very interested for non-race riding just because of the ability to seal the system and reduce maintenance. Also looks crazy unique.
Argonaut RM3 | Pivot Trail 429

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Did this turn out as vaporware?
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

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C36
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by C36

I has always been presented as a “we have an idea, designed a prototype but we won’t be able to industrialise it ourselves without a partner”. So can’t say they promised much… but yea there are no more reasons to see it on a bike now that few years ago.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

I mailed them several months ago about this, no reply!
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

Butcher
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by Butcher

I would not call it vaporware, more like 'That's just stupid'. Someones idea to justify their job.

cokemachine
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by cokemachine

I had a lot of back and forth with them and as many have seen there were a lot of red flags. They did have a valid idea and pushed it as far as the prototype stage with hopes that a major player (i.e. Specialized) would buy, develop and commercialize the concept. I think they realized early on that the cost and resources required to bring this to fruition was far greater than what they could muster thus the call for outside investment. Ultimately this ended up being a bait and switch thing as they quickly pivoted to e-bikes and have pretty much abondoned the Driven concept. Those who invested based on the original concept I'm guessing are none too happy about that.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

cokemachine wrote:
Mon May 15, 2023 8:01 pm
I had a lot of back and forth with them and as many have seen there were a lot of red flags. They did have a valid idea and pushed it as far as the prototype stage with hopes that a major player (i.e. Specialized) would buy, develop and commercialize the concept. I think they realized early on that the cost and resources required to bring this to fruition was far greater than what they could muster thus the call for outside investment. Ultimately this ended up being a bait and switch thing as they quickly pivoted to e-bikes and have pretty much abondoned the Driven concept. Those who invested based on the original concept I'm guessing are none too happy about that.
Ah, it's a pity. I think it's so cool. Just seeing that on a bike would make it tickle in the pants :lol:
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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