Are We Getting A New Cannondale Supersix?

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LedZeppelin007
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:46 pm

by LedZeppelin007

Another observation: two separate shops literally reacted with horror when they found out I removed a press-fit BB. One person even said, “Oh my god!”

I am a goofy, impatient and disorganized man that has zero innate talent for workshop related stuff. Even for me, taking my time, it’s no issue at all to install or remove a press-fit BB. I also shortened the hydraulic cables and rebled the brake system, recentered the calipers as they were rubbing from the store, cut my steerer to size, and re-wrapped my bars. And installed a new, non-useless steerer expander plug. That would probably send them into a full on panic.


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Nereth
Posts: 250
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:18 am

by Nereth

LedZeppelin007 wrote:
Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:18 pm
Using a borrowed inside micrometer (I think correctly), I got 45.763 on the non-drive side and 45.787 on the drive side.

Edit: I’ve never used an inside micrometer, but believe I was using it reasonably. Unfortunately, I did not have a reference diameter by which to zero the device (which has a range of 40ish to 50ish mm), so I was forced to use the inside of a bearing cup that I measured at 41.8 with my calipers. I zeroed off of that and added 41.8 to any measurement I made. That definitely adds a bit of error to my figures, but I can’t imagine that it’s enough to account for nearly a quarter of a millimeter.




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None of this should really matter with a dimension that is so far off, but, for interests sake,

1) 2 point or 3 point mic?
2) With a 2 point mic, you can calibrate directly off the outside jaws of your caliper. Note that the SMALLEST distance you get with the mic is the correct reading.
3) With a 2 point mic, if you are off in the hole laterally, it will read LOW (same as calipers), if you are not square to the bore, it will read HIGH (calipers would read low until you got hilariously far off square)
4) With a 3 point mic, you really need to set with a known ID (e.g. a ring gauge, or the ID of a bearing is close enough in this case)
5) With a 3 point mic, it reads HIGH if you hold it skew to the bore.
6) If you calibrate either of these by taking a caliper to check a ring, then using the ring to check the mic, then you really should have just used the caliper on the hole to be measured in the first place. The only problem with a caliper in an ID, other than technique issues, is that the measurement edges (corners of the outside edge of the inside jaws) are not quite in line with the axis of measurement, they're offset each side of it, which makes it read ever so slightly low - but that error will be vanishingly small for any caliper I can picture, for a hole of that size, when compared to the error you are talking about. It's shown here: https://www2.mitutoyo.co.jp/eng/useful/ ... pdf/22.pdf

LedZeppelin007
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:46 pm

by LedZeppelin007

Nereth wrote:
LedZeppelin007 wrote:
Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:18 pm
Using a borrowed inside micrometer (I think correctly), I got 45.763 on the non-drive side and 45.787 on the drive side.

Edit: I’ve never used an inside micrometer, but believe I was using it reasonably. Unfortunately, I did not have a reference diameter by which to zero the device (which has a range of 40ish to 50ish mm), so I was forced to use the inside of a bearing cup that I measured at 41.8 with my calipers. I zeroed off of that and added 41.8 to any measurement I made. That definitely adds a bit of error to my figures, but I can’t imagine that it’s enough to account for nearly a quarter of a millimeter.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
None of this should really matter with a dimension that is so far off, but, for interests sake,

1) 2 point or 3 point mic?
2) With a 2 point mic, you can calibrate directly off the outside jaws of your caliper. Note that the SMALLEST distance you get with the mic is the correct reading.
3) With a 2 point mic, if you are off in the hole laterally, it will read LOW (same as calipers), if you are not square to the bore, it will read HIGH (calipers would read low until you got hilariously far off square)
4) With a 3 point mic, you really need to set with a known ID (e.g. a ring gauge, or the ID of a bearing is close enough in this case)
5) With a 3 point mic, it reads HIGH if you hold it skew to the bore.
6) If you calibrate either of these by taking a caliper to check a ring, then using the ring to check the mic, then you really should have just used the caliper on the hole to be measured in the first place. The only problem with a caliper in an ID, other than technique issues, is that the measurement edges (corners of the outside edge of the inside jaws) are not quite in line with the axis of measurement, they're offset each side of it, which makes it read ever so slightly low - but that error will be vanishingly small for any caliper I can picture, for a hole of that size, when compared to the error you are talking about. It's shown here: https://www2.mitutoyo.co.jp/eng/useful/ ... pdf/22.pdf
It’s a three point mic.


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LedZeppelin007
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:46 pm

by LedZeppelin007

I’ll pick up something that I can more confidently use to zero the mic.

Also, it didn’t occur to me previously, but I looked at my crank spindle and, after 120 miles, it already has wear despite only being contacting by a polymer insert (to step down from 30mm to 24mm).

Image
Image


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Omiar
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:20 pm

by Omiar

Lina wrote:
Fri Apr 28, 2023 10:21 am
Can it be fixed to usable state? Most likely yes. Should the customer have to do that when they're paying thousands of dollars for a bike? Absolutely not. People need to push back against bike manufacturers when they sell them something that's obviously outside the specifications. This needs to be a warranty replacement because it's not what was advertised.
True, but Cannondale can't make a piece of carbon with a properly sized round hole in it. The replacement frameset may end up being the same.
Cannondale SystemSix R8170
Trek Checkpoint SL5 MY2022

Omiar
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:20 pm

by Omiar

LedZeppelin007 wrote:
Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:18 pm
Using a borrowed inside micrometer (I think correctly), I got 45.763 on the non-drive side and 45.787 on the drive side.

Edit: I’ve never used an inside micrometer, but believe I was using it reasonably. Unfortunately, I did not have a reference diameter by which to zero the device (which has a range of 40ish to 50ish mm), so I was forced to use the inside of a bearing cup that I measured at 41.8 with my calipers. I zeroed off of that and added 41.8 to any measurement I made. That definitely adds a bit of error to my figures, but I can’t imagine that it’s enough to account for nearly a quarter of a millimeter.

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I would measure that OEM BB cups with a micrometer. That is much more easy to do and tells a lot about the BB shell ID.
It should have taken a lot of effort to remove BB when the BB shell 45.763/45.787 are actually correct. OEM BB cups are about 46,03 and interferece fit would not work.
For example using a 25 mm diameter, a H7/p6 (interefence) fit gives a min interference of 0.001 mm and a max interference of 0.035 mm. You have almost double the diameter, but you will still be way out of interference range.
https://fractory.com/limits-and-fits/
Cannondale SystemSix R8170
Trek Checkpoint SL5 MY2022

LedZeppelin007
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:46 pm

by LedZeppelin007

Omiar wrote:
LedZeppelin007 wrote:
Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:18 pm
Using a borrowed inside micrometer (I think correctly), I got 45.763 on the non-drive side and 45.787 on the drive side.

Edit: I’ve never used an inside micrometer, but believe I was using it reasonably. Unfortunately, I did not have a reference diameter by which to zero the device (which has a range of 40ish to 50ish mm), so I was forced to use the inside of a bearing cup that I measured at 41.8 with my calipers. I zeroed off of that and added 41.8 to any measurement I made. That definitely adds a bit of error to my figures, but I can’t imagine that it’s enough to account for nearly a quarter of a millimeter.

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I would measure that OEM BB cups with a micrometer. That is much more easy to do and tells a lot about the BB shell ID.
It should have taken a lot of effort to remove BB when the BB shell 45.763/45.787 are actually correct. OEM BB cups are about 46,03 and interferece fit would not work.
For example using a 25 mm diameter, a H7/p6 (interefence) fit gives a min interference of 0.001 mm and a max interference of 0.035 mm. You have almost double the diameter, but you will still be way out of interference range.
https://fractory.com/limits-and-fits/
I did measure the cups with my calipers. Bang on 46.00mm.

It’s hard to qualify the effort to remove since I used a press. I would say it took longer than usual to pull the cups out.


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RDY
Posts: 2355
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

I think the dealer knows exactly what they're doing - I.E. that you absolutely did not cause this damage yourself. I can't see how they could think that looking at the photos and listening to what you say. Gaslighting IMO.

PUNlSHER
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:44 am

by PUNlSHER

As I understand it, on the rim-brake version, it's just a hole through which I can't fit any cables?
2021-cannondale-supersix-evo-carbon-disc-105-cable-routing.jpg
S6 EVO3 - 6380g CAAD13 - 6626g TOPSTONE Al - 8195g

parma
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:31 pm

by parma

my new wheels bora wto 60 tubuless .
Attachments
IMG_5008 (1)-min.jpg

Hls2k6
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:43 am

by Hls2k6

Can anyone recommend the best one-piece bar & stem option for the Evo3? Caveat, my stock Knot stem is slammed, so I'd need the new stem and (I presume required) spacer to fit that limited amount of steerer.

I apologize that this has probably been discussed to death, but dang if I could find a definitive answer. I did read through the EXS (seemingly unavailable right now) and Farsports (seems like a good choice, if it'll fit) threads and also looked at the Evo4 thread hoping to see if anyone has retrofitted the Momo bar.

Thanks in advance!

Hls2k6
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:43 am

by Hls2k6

Hls2k6 wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2023 1:54 am
Can anyone recommend the best one-piece bar & stem option for the Evo3? Caveat, my stock Knot stem is slammed, so I'd need the new stem and (I presume required) spacer to fit that limited amount of steerer.

I apologize that this has probably been discussed to death, but dang if I could find a definitive answer. I did read through the EXS (seemingly unavailable right now) and Farsports (seems like a good choice, if it'll fit) threads and also looked at the Evo4 thread hoping to see if anyone has retrofitted the Momo bar.

Thanks in advance!
Anyone?

LedZeppelin007
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:46 pm

by LedZeppelin007

Hls2k6 wrote:
Hls2k6 wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2023 1:54 am
Can anyone recommend the best one-piece bar & stem option for the Evo3? Caveat, my stock Knot stem is slammed, so I'd need the new stem and (I presume required) spacer to fit that limited amount of steerer.

I apologize that this has probably been discussed to death, but dang if I could find a definitive answer. I did read through the EXS (seemingly unavailable right now) and Farsports (seems like a good choice, if it'll fit) threads and also looked at the Evo4 thread hoping to see if anyone has retrofitted the Momo bar.

Thanks in advance!
Anyone?
Aerover I think.


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Stueys
Posts: 673
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:12 pm

by Stueys

Hls2k6 wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2023 12:07 am
Hls2k6 wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2023 1:54 am
Can anyone recommend the best one-piece bar & stem option for the Evo3? Caveat, my stock Knot stem is slammed, so I'd need the new stem and (I presume required) spacer to fit that limited amount of steerer.

I apologize that this has probably been discussed to death, but dang if I could find a definitive answer. I did read through the EXS (seemingly unavailable right now) and Farsports (seems like a good choice, if it'll fit) threads and also looked at the Evo4 thread hoping to see if anyone has retrofitted the Momo bar.

Thanks in advance!
Anyone?
At some point I'm going to chase through the 3d printing guys to see whether I can get the Rapide cockpit to work. Will let you know if I get any joy

Hls2k6
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:43 am

by Hls2k6

Thank you both!

by Weenie


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Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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