sure it isn't, only +-2cm lower than Madone, Aeroad, Reacto...
*Tour Aero Bike Tests*
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So, new bike time, as long as the aero wizards on here tell me it's worth it.
Currently on a Tarmac SL6, with Roval Rapide CLX wheels, narrow Enve bars.
Thinking of changing to the new Foil, would be using the same wheels and cockpit.
Is it possible to get a feel for likely watts saved? I do a lot of road bike TTs so typically talking about c.40kph where it matters most.
Thanks
Currently on a Tarmac SL6, with Roval Rapide CLX wheels, narrow Enve bars.
Thinking of changing to the new Foil, would be using the same wheels and cockpit.
Is it possible to get a feel for likely watts saved? I do a lot of road bike TTs so typically talking about c.40kph where it matters most.
Thanks
Would say that the key bit of info missing is the handlebar. If you're currently on Enve SES Aero 35cm (hoods), and you're forced onto Syncros 38cm bars, you might not save (m)any watts (or even lose some).pedalbasher wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:26 pmSo, new bike time, as long as the aero wizards on here tell me it's worth it.
Currently on a Tarmac SL6, with Roval Rapide CLX wheels, narrow Enve bars.
Thinking of changing to the new Foil, would be using the same wheels and cockpit.
Is it possible to get a feel for likely watts saved? I do a lot of road bike TTs so typically talking about c.40kph where it matters most.
Thanks
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Thanks for reply. Yes appreciate that, which is why I will be keeping the Enve bars. Can get a 2-piece cockpit setup for the Foil, so Enve bars on the Foil stem. Essentially I am just interested in the difference the frame will make, all other components (and even position) equal to my SL6 setup.robeambro wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:28 pmWould say that the key bit of info missing is the handlebar. If you're currently on Enve SES Aero 35cm (hoods), and you're forced onto Syncros 38cm bars, you might not save (m)any watts (or even lose some).pedalbasher wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:26 pmSo, new bike time, as long as the aero wizards on here tell me it's worth it.
Currently on a Tarmac SL6, with Roval Rapide CLX wheels, narrow Enve bars.
Thinking of changing to the new Foil, would be using the same wheels and cockpit.
Is it possible to get a feel for likely watts saved? I do a lot of road bike TTs so typically talking about c.40kph where it matters most.
Thanks
Thanks again.
I've had a foil on order for some months - doing exactly the same as you to replace my Venge DIsc which is also running 35cm enve bars (run into by a car and written off). Foil was the first aero bike I saw that had a) solid aero credentials by my eye-ball-wind-tunnel, and b) Where I could transfer my bars over and retain proper integration.pedalbasher wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:39 pm
Thanks for reply. Yes appreciate that, which is why I will be keeping the Enve bars. Can get a 2-piece cockpit setup for the Foil, so Enve bars on the Foil stem. Essentially I am just interested in the difference the frame will make, all other components (and even position) equal to my SL6 setup.
Thanks again.
As to how much you'll save - see my responses earlier in this thread where I was trying to take out the error from tour using non-standard wheels. I get the feeling that the Scott is more aero than it seems, but held back by Zipp 454s. That said, outrageous speculation follows: I do a lot of my riding up near the 45kph that the tour test is run at. On that basis, I expect to save conservatively 1-3 watts from the venge, and optimistically maybe up to 4-5 on same wheels. From an SL6, I expect you will save noteably more, but I'm not sure how aero the SL6 was. Take all those numbers and knock a quarter off for a 40kph setpoint.
So basically... a pair of socks! For the ones who are not racing and seeking every marginal gain because of that... Puts me to wonder.Nereth wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:11 am
On that basis, I expect to save conservatively 1-3 watts from the venge, and optimistically maybe up to 4-5 on same wheels. From an SL6, I expect you will save noteably more, but I'm not sure how aero the SL6 was. Take all those numbers and knock a quarter off for a 40kph setpoint.
It doesn't make any sense to buy a new bike to get more aero unless you're riding a brick. But if you're buying a new bike anyway then there might not be any price difference between the bikes.naavt wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:26 amSo basically... a pair of socks! For the ones who are not racing and seeking every marginal gain because of that... Puts me to wonder.Nereth wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:11 am
On that basis, I expect to save conservatively 1-3 watts from the venge, and optimistically maybe up to 4-5 on same wheels. From an SL6, I expect you will save noteably more, but I'm not sure how aero the SL6 was. Take all those numbers and knock a quarter off for a 40kph setpoint.
This comment seems misplaced for so many reasons (depending on your intent with it...)naavt wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:26 amSo basically... a pair of socks! For the ones who are not racing and seeking every marginal gain because of that... Puts me to wonder.Nereth wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:11 am
On that basis, I expect to save conservatively 1-3 watts from the venge, and optimistically maybe up to 4-5 on same wheels. From an SL6, I expect you will save noteably more, but I'm not sure how aero the SL6 was. Take all those numbers and knock a quarter off for a 40kph setpoint.
1) In my specific case, my original frame was destroyed in a car crash, as I said in my post. The replacement has nothing to do with marginal gains.
2) I'm comparing a top end aero frame to another aero frame. Why are you expecting more than a few watts from what is, at best, a side-grade?
3) Are you new to marginal gains? You get 3-4 watts each from frame, wheels, handlebar, (and a lot from kit), you end up 15W ahead. Now you're doing your pulls at 105% FTP instead of 110%. Now you can pull for twice as long for the same amount of match burned. That is NOT marginal any more. You are now significantly fresher after an hour. Not to mention that you get slightly more rest in the draft and get to the front a bit fresher as well!
4) Maybe you already HAVE the aero socks, and want something else on top of that? They're not mutually exclusive!
You've assumed my post as a critic, which was not! It was only an outburst from me!Nereth wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:40 am
This comment seems misplaced for so many reasons (depending on your intent with it...)
1) In my specific case, my original frame was destroyed in a car crash, as I said in my post. The replacement has nothing to do with marginal gains.
2) I'm comparing a top end aero frame to another aero frame. Why are you expecting more than a few watts from what is, at best, a side-grade?
3) Are you new to marginal gains? You get 3-4 watts each from frame, wheels, handlebar, (and a lot from kit), you end up 15W ahead. Now you're doing your pulls at 105% FTP instead of 110%. Now you can pull for twice as long for the same amount of match burned. That is NOT marginal any more. You are now significantly fresher after an hour. Not to mention that you get slightly more rest in the draft and get to the front a bit fresher as well!
4) Maybe you already HAVE the aero socks, and want something else on top of that? They're not mutually exclusive!
Everyone should be free to buy whatever makes them happy! Even if it's just 1w faster or 20w slower
From everything I've read and listened to on podcasts, etc, the biggest gains being made are coming from the cockpit and wheels. If your remove that variable I'd say the difference between most aero and aero "allrounder" type frames is within the margin of error for testing. I'm riding a current gen Emonda which from the front looks every bit as aero as an aero frame. They don't do the dropped stays or aero seatpost though for ride quality reasons- we know that costs watts. But its pretty dirty air by the time it gets there so how they'd measure that I'm unsure. For me the dead ride feel and extra weight of a full on aero bike didn't seem worth it. The new Propel looks like an awesome allrounder.pedalbasher wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:26 pmSo, new bike time, as long as the aero wizards on here tell me it's worth it.
Currently on a Tarmac SL6, with Roval Rapide CLX wheels, narrow Enve bars.
Thinking of changing to the new Foil, would be using the same wheels and cockpit.
Is it possible to get a feel for likely watts saved? I do a lot of road bike TTs so typically talking about c.40kph where it matters most.
Thanks
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OMG this thread is gold.
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