*Tour Aero Bike Tests*

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C36
Posts: 2471
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

naavt wrote: On another note, Simplon just "appears to be" a faster bike than Scott's Foil just by looking at the tube shapes, and I don't believe in a shy 7w difference between those two! As I don't believe in the F12 numbers, even with the great fork clearance it has!
Read it three times and can’t understand if you are being ironic …you rely on « appears to be » rather than trusting wind tunnel numbers?

We exposed few times here the known limits (a fast frame that doesn’t fit you, the question of the stack and bar width, the results normalised with wheels, the change of reference tire or the wheel / tire integration) but those are the most representative numbers we have.

thirdsun
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:20 pm

by thirdsun

Since people keep asking about past results (which I completely understand) I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to compile a definitive list of all Tour results and pin it to the first post of this (or a new) thread. Maybe make it a Google Sheet so that only a link is needed, without having to update the post again and again.

I don't think it's realistic to expect people to read a 100-page thread to find the numbers they are looking for.
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TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I truly believe the fastest bikes for me without compromising handling by sizing down are the H1 Treks (the Domane RSL is described as H1.5, but its reach/stack is almost identical to my H1 Emonda.) So much so that I am relegating my Madone to crit duty. My Domane RSL will handle flat/rolling road races, while my 2018 Emonda SLR will be put back into service on hilly courses.

The hope is Trek and other brands continue to reevaluate "modern geometry" and move toward no-setback posts, saddle positions that butt up against the 5cm rule + long reach.

calleking
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:20 pm

by calleking

I have a googl spreadsheet which a member in this thread shared with me awhile ago. He has most of the bikes in it but he asked me not to post it which I will respect:

"As discussed on WW, here the data from Tour Mag collected over the years. Quite focused on race bikes, I left many of the endurance ones aside.
Please do not share fully (don’t mind extracts), just cause it end-up harming Tour and it would be a loss to see them stopping doing what they are."

If you are looking for a bike I can provide some details. If he wants to share it publicly it's his decision.

Also, he shared this site with me which has some really good articles: https://www.cyclesetforme.fr/blog/
2022 Wilier Filante SLR Dura-Ace/Ultegra Di2 12sp
2021 Cannondale Scalpel Carbon 2

Retired:
2018 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Sagan Superstar DA 9150
2016 Aeroad CF SLX UDi2
2016 CAAD12 - SRAM Red 22 - Hyper 50mm

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C36
Posts: 2471
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

thirdsun wrote:Since people keep asking about past results (which I completely understand) I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to compile a definitive list of all Tour results and pin it to the first post of this (or a new) thread. Maybe make it a Google Sheet so that only a link is needed, without having to update the post again and again.

I don't think it's realistic to expect people to read a 100-page thread to find the numbers they are looking for.
You have an ethical question here, it’s not correct to expect to share for free, full data, coming from expensive work initially accessible through subscription.
So I would either recommend to read the 100 pages (or search) or subscribe to Tour and access to last 6-7 years of magasines and test (and can search through those magasines).

I do have last 6-7 years of data and share extracts once in a while. Few years ago someone from Tour (or their mother entity) asked me not to share full listing and remain “reasonable” in data shared.

60€ annual or 11 for 3 months… looking at all subscriptions… that’s really cheap

https://www.delius-klasing.de/abo-shop/?zeitschrift=249#

naavt
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:58 pm

by naavt

C36 wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:54 am
thirdsun wrote:Since people keep asking about past results (which I completely understand) I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to compile a definitive list of all Tour results and pin it to the first post of this (or a new) thread. Maybe make it a Google Sheet so that only a link is needed, without having to update the post again and again.

I don't think it's realistic to expect people to read a 100-page thread to find the numbers they are looking for.
You have an ethical question here, it’s not correct to expect to share for free, full data, coming from expensive work initially accessible through subscription.
So I would either recommend to read the 100 pages (or search) or subscribe to Tour and access to last 6-7 years of magasines and test (and can search through those magasines).

I do have last 6-7 years of data and share extracts once in a while. Few years ago someone from Tour (or their mother entity) asked me not to share full listing and remain “reasonable” in data shared.

60€ annual or 11 for 3 months… looking at all subscriptions… that’s really cheap

https://www.delius-klasing.de/abo-shop/?zeitschrift=249#
For what it seems Tour Mag is a German written magazine only right?

I've considered subscribing some time ago, but for a non German reader I can't see it happen

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C36
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by C36

naavt wrote:
C36 wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:54 am
thirdsun wrote:Since people keep asking about past results (which I completely understand) I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to compile a definitive list of all Tour results and pin it to the first post of this (or a new) thread. Maybe make it a Google Sheet so that only a link is needed, without having to update the post again and again.

I don't think it's realistic to expect people to read a 100-page thread to find the numbers they are looking for.
You have an ethical question here, it’s not correct to expect to share for free, full data, coming from expensive work initially accessible through subscription.
So I would either recommend to read the 100 pages (or search) or subscribe to Tour and access to last 6-7 years of magasines and test (and can search through those magasines).

I do have last 6-7 years of data and share extracts once in a while. Few years ago someone from Tour (or their mother entity) asked me not to share full listing and remain “reasonable” in data shared.

60€ annual or 11 for 3 months… looking at all subscriptions… that’s really cheap

https://www.delius-klasing.de/abo-shop/?zeitschrift=249#
For what it seems Tour Mag is a German written magazine only right?

I've considered subscribing some time ago, but for a non German reader I can't see it happen
Neither am I! You can quite easily translates pages online for their comments. The numbers are obviously quite easier to understand.

If I could add to convince people to subscribe, here we discuss a lot about the aero testing but you have many other equipment test (kits, helmets, some wheels…) always with this “test, numbers approach”.

thirdsun
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:20 pm

by thirdsun

C36 wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:54 am
thirdsun wrote:Since people keep asking about past results (which I completely understand) I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to compile a definitive list of all Tour results and pin it to the first post of this (or a new) thread. Maybe make it a Google Sheet so that only a link is needed, without having to update the post again and again.

I don't think it's realistic to expect people to read a 100-page thread to find the numbers they are looking for.
You have an ethical question here, it’s not correct to expect to share for free, full data, coming from expensive work initially accessible through subscription.
So I would either recommend to read the 100 pages (or search) or subscribe to Tour and access to last 6-7 years of magasines and test (and can search through those magasines).

I do have last 6-7 years of data and share extracts once in a while. Few years ago someone from Tour (or their mother entity) asked me not to share full listing and remain “reasonable” in data shared.

60€ annual or 11 for 3 months… looking at all subscriptions… that’s really cheap

https://www.delius-klasing.de/abo-shop/?zeitschrift=249#
I agree. It's an important consideration.

On the other hand we're sharing the data already - just in a very inconvenient way. My suggestion would be to only publish the watt value in such a list. No other information and with a purchase link to the actual Tour issue / subscription.

I buy several Tour issues each year too but as far as I can tell even full subscribers can't access a comprehensive list/database of all tested bikes. Seems like a missed chance for Delius Klasing. They have sought-after data nobody else has but finding it in all those issues is a cumbersome affair.
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robeambro
Posts: 1829
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

thirdsun wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:31 am
C36 wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:54 am
thirdsun wrote:Since people keep asking about past results (which I completely understand) I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to compile a definitive list of all Tour results and pin it to the first post of this (or a new) thread. Maybe make it a Google Sheet so that only a link is needed, without having to update the post again and again.

I don't think it's realistic to expect people to read a 100-page thread to find the numbers they are looking for.
You have an ethical question here, it’s not correct to expect to share for free, full data, coming from expensive work initially accessible through subscription.
So I would either recommend to read the 100 pages (or search) or subscribe to Tour and access to last 6-7 years of magasines and test (and can search through those magasines).

I do have last 6-7 years of data and share extracts once in a while. Few years ago someone from Tour (or their mother entity) asked me not to share full listing and remain “reasonable” in data shared.

60€ annual or 11 for 3 months… looking at all subscriptions… that’s really cheap

https://www.delius-klasing.de/abo-shop/?zeitschrift=249#
I agree. It's an important consideration.

On the other hand we're sharing the data already - just in a very inconvenient way. My suggestion would be to only publish the watt value in such a list. No other information and with a purchase link to the actual Tour issue / subscription.

I buy several Tour issues each year too but as far as I can tell even full subscribers can't access a comprehensive list/database of all tested bikes. Seems like a missed chance for Delius Klasing. They have sought-after data nobody else has but finding it in all those issues is a cumbersome affair.
Hmm - is it? They probably understand that if they were to create an easy-access table with their whole results database, it would only be a few hours (or at best, days) until it makes it on the internet, and their data is suddenly worth nothing.

thirdsun
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:20 pm

by thirdsun

robeambro wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:25 am
thirdsun wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:31 am
I agree. It's an important consideration.

On the other hand we're sharing the data already - just in a very inconvenient way. My suggestion would be to only publish the watt value in such a list. No other information and with a purchase link to the actual Tour issue / subscription.

I buy several Tour issues each year too but as far as I can tell even full subscribers can't access a comprehensive list/database of all tested bikes. Seems like a missed chance for Delius Klasing. They have sought-after data nobody else has but finding it in all those issues is a cumbersome affair.
Hmm - is it? They probably understand that if they were to create an easy-access table with their whole results database, it would only be a few hours (or at best, days) until it makes it on the internet, and their data is suddenly worth nothing.
Well, instead they should just inconvenience their paying customers, I guess.

Does Consumer Reports have issues with their reviews and content leaking?

My point is that Tour has unique reviews and data but they are making it quite hard to access it - even for paying customers. I don't want to browse through what is basically a series of PDFs in a outdated magazine layout and mediocre app. They should let go of the print design and present their content with a web-friendly and web-first approach.
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BenCousins
Posts: 1366
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:46 am

by BenCousins

I think an English translation of their results (without full reviews) posted online would probably increase rather than decrease subscriptions. Especially if they delayed updating those results for a couple of months after publication.

I had no idea what Tour Magazine was until people started posting the stiffness/weight results here years ago.

It's 2023. You need leverage the internet for marketing!!

Ytse
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu May 05, 2022 11:53 am

by Ytse

Do you know if Tour Magazine has ever wind tunnel tested the latest gen (2021) Trek Emonda? What was the result?
2020 Scott Addict RC / 2021 Trek Emonda SLR / 2023 Specialized Tarmac SL8

ichobi
Posts: 1793
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

The gen before current gen was one of the “slowest” around. IIRC the current gen was still slower than the tarmac sl6 but not by much.


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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Current gen still very slow.

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otnemem
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

by otnemem

Were I in Tour, I would drop everything and put a V4RS in the tunnel ASAP. Capitalize on drama.

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