Chain lubricants

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froze
Posts: 430
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:47 am

by froze

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:52 pm
MikeD wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 5:17 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 4:40 am
You could have the cleanest drivetrain on the planet and only ever ride on an indoor trainer, and your lube will still turn slightly black / dark gray because that's the metal from the chain abrading away at a microscopic level.
One would think that in a clean environment, like riding indoors on a trainer, that there would be no chain wear as that means there's metal to metal contact. That shouldn't be on a properly lubed chain with a decent lube in the absence of dirt/grit.

Wear rates are indeed reduced dramatically. I had 17000mi on a chain lube primarily with RnR Gold that never even hit 0.5% elongation. The primary type of wear this chain experienced was on the plates themselves during shifting, so much that the middle portion of each plate had begun to appear slightly more curved.
I had the same situation with RnR Gold, and with Dumonde Tech Lite, and people on other forums, and this one, said that wasn't possible, thanks for chiming in.

Touring/camping loads put more stress on the chain, my chain on the touring bike has about 3,500 or so miles on it and it's not registering any wear so far using Dumonde Tech.

froze
Posts: 430
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:47 am

by froze

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Lakal
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:20 pm

by Lakal

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:08 am
Trying Effetto Mariposa Flower Power after ZFC's glowing review.

1) It's "cheap" compared to UFO Drip and Silca Super Secret. US$50 for a 500mL bottle.
2) It's milky white in appearance and applies easily. A little watery compared to UFO Drip, but TBH I have one bottle of UFO Drip that is more watery than another... Nothing like Silca Secret which just loves lubricating my floor.
3) Penetrates very well, especially after backpedaling a few times.
4) Dries pretty quickly.
5) Runs incredibly silent. It's quieter than Silca Super Secret, much quieter than UFO Drip.
6) "Feels like" Squirt as you pedal, as in the lube is seemingly damping out vibrations in the chain/drivetrain.
7) It's gummier than Silca whereas UFO Drip is powdery. Wax buildup appears on the edges of the chain and on the chainrings/cogs/pulleys. I recommend wiping down the chain after the first ride.

Given the "damped" feel of the drivetrain, I would be shocked if FlowerPower is as efficient as UFO Drip or Silca Super Secret. It runs longer, but that's because its wetter/plasticized. I don't doubt the claims that this lube could last 650km per application in dry road riding.
The exact same experience here.
I know that ZFC says that it boiling water is not enough to reset the contamination but I found that the chain was actually looking cleaner than a ufo drip waxed chain. What is your take on that?

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Lakal wrote:
Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:46 am

The exact same experience here.
I know that ZFC says that it boiling water is not enough to reset the contamination but I found that the chain was actually looking cleaner than a ufo drip waxed chain. What is your take on that?

Boiling water should work just fine. Not sure why he said that. It clearly has an even lower melting point than paraffin.

BBres
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:20 pm

by BBres

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:08 am
Trying Effetto Mariposa Flower Power after ZFC's glowing review.

1) It's "cheap" compared to UFO Drip and Silca Super Secret. US$50 for a 500mL bottle.
2) It's milky white in appearance and applies easily. A little watery compared to UFO Drip, but TBH I have one bottle of UFO Drip that is more watery than another... Nothing like Silca Secret which just loves lubricating my floor.
3) Penetrates very well, especially after backpedaling a few times.
4) Dries pretty quickly.
5) Runs incredibly silent. It's quieter than Silca Super Secret, much quieter than UFO Drip.
6) "Feels like" Squirt as you pedal, as in the lube is seemingly damping out vibrations in the chain/drivetrain.
7) It's gummier than Silca whereas UFO Drip is powdery. Wax buildup appears on the edges of the chain and on the chainrings/cogs/pulleys. I recommend wiping down the chain after the first ride.

Given the "damped" feel of the drivetrain, I would be shocked if FlowerPower is as efficient as UFO Drip or Silca Super Secret. It runs longer, but that's because its wetter/plasticized. I don't doubt the claims that this lube could last 650km per application in dry road riding.
Thanks a lot for that feedback. I think I'll give it a try.

It sems the only downside might be the efficiency loss:
"And remember with extremely low wear rates, there is only so high the efficiency loss number can be – it is likely to be at the pointy end of town".

otnemem
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

by otnemem

I'm about to start using Rex's Black Diamond on the trainer. Also, of course, from reading ZFF's report. Seems like the best choice for low maintenance, nearly "set" and forget.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12456
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

otnemem wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:50 am
I'm about to start using Rex's Black Diamond on the trainer. Also, of course, from reading ZFF's report. Seems like the best choice for low maintenance, nearly "set" and forget.

On the trainer you can use basically anything. I used RnR Gold and RnR Absolute Dry and got 30000km out of a single chain before I replaced it as a precaution. It hadn’t even reached 0.5%. This was on a dedicated trainer/spare bike though.

otnemem
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

by otnemem

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:23 pm
otnemem wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:50 am
I'm about to start using Rex's Black Diamond on the trainer. Also, of course, from reading ZFF's report. Seems like the best choice for low maintenance, nearly "set" and forget.

On the trainer you can use basically anything. I used RnR Gold and RnR Absolute Dry and got 30000km out of a single chain before I replaced it as a precaution. It hadn’t even reached 0.5%. This was on a dedicated trainer/spare bike though.
Yeah, but the mileage you get off a single application of Black Diamond is absolutely ridiculous.

froze
Posts: 430
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:47 am

by froze

using any kind of lube on a trainer will last a long time, I have a bike on trainer for the last 3 years and it doesn't need relubing or cleaned, so using a lube on a trainer is not a realistic expectation of how long it will last.

Sock3t
Posts: 448
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:20 am

by Sock3t

Muc off just came out with an expensive lube. I've liked their dry lube so far and was considering it.

Has anyone tried it?

Lakal
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:20 pm

by Lakal

Sock3t wrote:
Thu Dec 29, 2022 3:13 pm
Muc off just came out with an expensive lube. I've liked their dry lube so far and was considering it.

Has anyone tried it?
Muc Off's products are some of the worst you can use on your chain.
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/lubetesting/

MilesG813
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 7:17 pm

by MilesG813

I live in Florida with variable conditions and have found Progold Extreme to be reliable. It might require a wipe down after each ride but my drivetrain is quiet, I do not lose too many watts according to the Silica study, and it protects my chain in the event I get caught in the rain.
2022 Specialized S-Works SL7 I Ultegra R8170 I Princeton Carbonworks 6560
2012 Cannondale CAAD 10 I 105 R5700 I Zipp 404s

BBres
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:20 pm

by BBres

I've never understood the idea of using any lube this pricey (EUR 65).

I clean my bike thoroughly every week / 10 days depending on the weather. I do not need and have never sought a lube that would last for a month or so. I simply see no point since I'd rinse it off every week. I use C3 ceramic Muc-off and it's great for me. It's reasonably priced, performs very well and keeps the chain clean enough. On the other side it is very easy to clean. Even if I don't want to clean my whole bike I can always clean just a drivetrain in 2 minutes, get a shiny chain and reapply the lube. TBH I reckon that is the best way of having always clean, aesthetic, lubed and smooth drivetrain.

Any producer may call its lube as the fastest, the best, and the only. Noone can proove it. Even if a lube may reduce the friction by a fraction (say 1,5 watt) - does it make any difference in a real world? Does it justify the price?
Lakal wrote:
Thu Dec 29, 2022 3:36 pm
Sock3t wrote:
Thu Dec 29, 2022 3:13 pm
Muc off just came out with an expensive lube. I've liked their dry lube so far and was considering it.

Has anyone tried it?
Muc Off's products are some of the worst you can use on your chain.
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/lubetesting/
Still, they have not tested the C3 ceramic dry. I am curious how it compares to Ceramic Speed

Lakal
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:20 pm

by Lakal

Zfc actually did the first test block and it is already worse than ufo drip: https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/late ... -one-fail/
That is without contamination. My guess would be that the muc off would be a lot worse in test block 2 with dry contamination.

And this is not just about watts. It is about drivetrain costs. You can check the costs here: https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-c ... er-22.xlsx

BBres
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:20 pm

by BBres

Thanks! Indeed the wear rate does not look good.


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