Hongfu FM-066/Chinese open mould frame thread

[s3si1u]

Has anyone experimented with removing the black matte finish from one of these open mold Chinese frames and subsequently tried painting it? I own an original FM66 frame acquired from Carbon-Zone or Carbon-Cycle on eBay (possibly OEM Hongfu) in 2016, which I've ridden extensively but has been stored for years. Curious about the feasibility, I'm contemplating sanding and repainting it. The original finish appears to be a matte black that resembles primer. Could I potentially spray over it with minimal preparation, or is a more involved process necessary? While I anticipate the likely answer is no, I'm interested in hearing from fellow WW members who may have firsthand experience.

I spent about 30 minutes sanding last night with 400 grit wet/dry which truth be told, hardly did anything.

I've painted several open molds. The standard matte black finish is essentially a "ready to paint" situation. Scuffing it very well with 400 grit or so will suffice for a new spray job, I found adding some good primer before spraying color really helps with adhesion.
I've also gone the full way and removed the matte black completely before primerimg and painting and I find you don't really need to go through all that trouble unless you really want to save an extra 7-10 grams or so.

Not totally related to this thread, but to your comment. I have a Ready to Paint Tarmac and wondering how "ready to paint" it actually is. Just sand the top coat and then primer? I can see the carbon layup so I think it's just a thin matte clearcoat. So maybe like 600 grit wet sanding and good to go for primer, then color? I also have a Tarmac SL7 pro frameset that is similar but has painted logos. Again, I can see the carbon layup so I'm thinking about sanding the logos off and then primer. Good idea?

Yeah, that's pretty much how I would go about it. A good wet sand with 400/600 grit, clean it real good and mask it off, then you're set for primer.
As far as your SL7 pro frameset, I also recently repainted my Winspace SLC frameset with a similar finish, but it was matte clear with gloss logos. I sanded it down until the logos were removed and flat with the rest of the frame. I tried to remove all the clear for the sake of weight on this one.

[BikeTyson]

Has anyone experimented with removing the black matte finish from one of these open mold Chinese frames and subsequently tried painting it? I own an original FM66 frame acquired from Carbon-Zone or Carbon-Cycle on eBay (possibly OEM Hongfu) in 2016, which I've ridden extensively but has been stored for years. Curious about the feasibility, I'm contemplating sanding and repainting it. The original finish appears to be a matte black that resembles primer. Could I potentially spray over it with minimal preparation, or is a more involved process necessary? While I anticipate the likely answer is no, I'm interested in hearing from fellow WW members who may have firsthand experience.

I spent about 30 minutes sanding last night with 400 grit wet/dry which truth be told, hardly did anything.

I've painted several open molds. The standard matte black finish is essentially a "ready to paint" situation. Scuffing it very well with 400 grit or so will suffice for a new spray job, I found adding some good primer before spraying color really helps with adhesion.
I've also gone the full way and removed the matte black completely before primerimg and painting and I find you don't really need to go through all that trouble unless you really want to save an extra 7-10 grams or so.

Not totally related to this thread, but to your comment. I have a Ready to Paint Tarmac and wondering how "ready to paint" it actually is. Just sand the top coat and then primer? I can see the carbon layup so I think it's just a thin matte clearcoat. So maybe like 600 grit wet sanding and good to go for primer, then color? I also have a Tarmac SL7 pro frameset that is similar but has painted logos. Again, I can see the carbon layup so I'm thinking about sanding the logos off and then primer. Good idea?

Yeah, that's pretty much how I would go about it. A good wet sand with 400/600 grit, clean it real good and mask it off, then you're set for primer.
As far as your SL7 pro frameset, I also recently repainted my Winspace SLC frameset with a similar finish, but it was matte clear with gloss logos. I sanded it down until the logos were removed and flat with the rest of the frame. I tried to remove all the clear for the sake of weight on this one.

Thanks for the tips.

[BikeTyson]

Anything new and exciting from the open mold world? I'm surprised this thread hasn't been as active recently. I'm looking for something super stiff and aero for crits. The new Bross Zenith looks awesome, but I can't find a way to get it in the US. There are rumors that it will release to the west as the new Cube aero bike but who knows when that is.

The other bike that looks nice is the Adapt AT-B01, which Panda Podium sells as the Tavelo Attack. I emailed Adapt directly but they don't want to sell direct to consumer. Panda Podium is out of stock plus I'd like to spend less than $1500 if I'm doing open mold.

Anybody got ideas for a stiff race bike? I'd love a threaded BB but it's not a deal breaker. Needs to fit a 30mm tire.

[Miller]

Another request for ideas, if anyone has any. Looking for an unfussy road frame, light with decent clearance (at least 32mm). Any suggestions?

[TidyDinosaur]

Another request for ideas, if anyone has any. Looking for an unfussy road frame, light with decent clearance (at least 32mm). Any suggestions?

Better check chinertown.com

[BenCousins]

Hasn't this side of the industry become a lot less interesting now the prices are so high? It used to be a knockoff Pinarello frame for $200 but now I see that Bross Zenith full bike isn't that much cheaper than a Supersix. I don't think a 15-30% lower price is justified for frames with no reliable weight, stiffness or aero data and no aftersales.

[BikeTyson]

Hasn't this side of the industry become a lot less interesting now the prices are so high? It used to be a knockoff Pinarello frame for $200 but now I see that Bross Zenith full bike isn't that much cheaper than a Supersix. I don't think a 15-30% lower price is justified for frames with no reliable weight, stiffness or aero data and no aftersales.

Are they that close? I thought the mech 105 version full build was around $2,000 (Supersix is $3,400 for the same group), or $2,600 with 105 Di2/Rival etap. Ultegra Di2 build was around $3,200. Now I get what you're saying but that's still cheaper than an SL8 Pro frameset alone. The higher tier frameset is $2100. You'd be hard pressed to find an upper level frameset for that cheap with western brands. It's for sure not the super cheap prices we were seeing four or five years ago. But it's still quite a bit cheaper than western brands. And in terms of quality, these "top tier" Chinese brands are right there. Bross makes Cube, so they at least know what they're doing enough to produce a World Tour bike. Nobody is saying this is an SL8 beater.

[Lina]

Hasn't this side of the industry become a lot less interesting now the prices are so high? It used to be a knockoff Pinarello frame for $200 but now I see that Bross Zenith full bike isn't that much cheaper than a Supersix. I don't think a 15-30% lower price is justified for frames with no reliable weight, stiffness or aero data and no aftersales.

Are they that close? I thought the mech 105 version full build was around $2,000 (Supersix is $3,400 for the same group), or $2,600 with 105 Di2/Rival etap. Ultegra Di2 build was around $3,200. Now I get what you're saying but that's still cheaper than an SL8 Pro frameset alone. The higher tier frameset is $2100. You'd be hard pressed to find an upper level frameset for that cheap with western brands. It's for sure not the super cheap prices we were seeing four or five years ago. But it's still quite a bit cheaper than western brands. And in terms of quality, these "top tier" Chinese brands are right there. Bross makes Cube, so they at least know what they're doing enough to produce a World Tour bike. Nobody is saying this is an SL8 beater.

You can get a SuperSix with 105 for a lot cheaper than $3400 in todays market if you look around even a bit.

[BikeTyson]

Hasn't this side of the industry become a lot less interesting now the prices are so high? It used to be a knockoff Pinarello frame for $200 but now I see that Bross Zenith full bike isn't that much cheaper than a Supersix. I don't think a 15-30% lower price is justified for frames with no reliable weight, stiffness or aero data and no aftersales.

Are they that close? I thought the mech 105 version full build was around $2,000 (Supersix is $3,400 for the same group), or $2,600 with 105 Di2/Rival etap. Ultegra Di2 build was around $3,200. Now I get what you're saying but that's still cheaper than an SL8 Pro frameset alone. The higher tier frameset is $2100. You'd be hard pressed to find an upper level frameset for that cheap with western brands. It's for sure not the super cheap prices we were seeing four or five years ago. But it's still quite a bit cheaper than western brands. And in terms of quality, these "top tier" Chinese brands are right there. Bross makes Cube, so they at least know what they're doing enough to produce a World Tour bike. Nobody is saying this is an SL8 beater.

You can get a SuperSix with 105 for a lot cheaper than $3400 in todays market if you look around even a bit.

Any links? I don't think I've seen one under $3000.

[Lina]

Hasn't this side of the industry become a lot less interesting now the prices are so high? It used to be a knockoff Pinarello frame for $200 but now I see that Bross Zenith full bike isn't that much cheaper than a Supersix. I don't think a 15-30% lower price is justified for frames with no reliable weight, stiffness or aero data and no aftersales.

Are they that close? I thought the mech 105 version full build was around $2,000 (Supersix is $3,400 for the same group), or $2,600 with 105 Di2/Rival etap. Ultegra Di2 build was around $3,200. Now I get what you're saying but that's still cheaper than an SL8 Pro frameset alone. The higher tier frameset is $2100. You'd be hard pressed to find an upper level frameset for that cheap with western brands. It's for sure not the super cheap prices we were seeing four or five years ago. But it's still quite a bit cheaper than western brands. And in terms of quality, these "top tier" Chinese brands are right there. Bross makes Cube, so they at least know what they're doing enough to produce a World Tour bike. Nobody is saying this is an SL8 beater.

You can get a SuperSix with 105 for a lot cheaper than $3400 in todays market if you look around even a bit.

Any links? I don't think I've seen one under $3000.

Literally google and calling bike shops.

[BikeTyson]

Are they that close? I thought the mech 105 version full build was around $2,000 (Supersix is $3,400 for the same group), or $2,600 with 105 Di2/Rival etap. Ultegra Di2 build was around $3,200. Now I get what you're saying but that's still cheaper than an SL8 Pro frameset alone. The higher tier frameset is $2100. You'd be hard pressed to find an upper level frameset for that cheap with western brands. It's for sure not the super cheap prices we were seeing four or five years ago. But it's still quite a bit cheaper than western brands. And in terms of quality, these "top tier" Chinese brands are right there. Bross makes Cube, so they at least know what they're doing enough to produce a World Tour bike. Nobody is saying this is an SL8 beater.

You can get a SuperSix with 105 for a lot cheaper than $3400 in todays market if you look around even a bit.

Any links? I don't think I've seen one under $3000.

Literally google and calling bike shops.

So...nothing to show that the Chinese bikes are a worse value. Even at $3,000 (which you didn't even show exists), it's $1,000 more expensive. Seems like the Chinese frames are still are great value over a possibly non-existant bike. If you can actually show me something cool. But I haven't seen anything except maybe the second hand market.

[BenCousins]

Hasn't this side of the industry become a lot less interesting now the prices are so high? It used to be a knockoff Pinarello frame for $200 but now I see that Bross Zenith full bike isn't that much cheaper than a Supersix. I don't think a 15-30% lower price is justified for frames with no reliable weight, stiffness or aero data and no aftersales.

Are they that close? I thought the mech 105 version full build was around $2,000 (Supersix is $3,400 for the same group), or $2,600 with 105 Di2/Rival etap. Ultegra Di2 build was around $3,200. Now I get what you're saying but that's still cheaper than an SL8 Pro frameset alone. The higher tier frameset is $2100. You'd be hard pressed to find an upper level frameset for that cheap with western brands. It's for sure not the super cheap prices we were seeing four or five years ago. But it's still quite a bit cheaper than western brands. And in terms of quality, these "top tier" Chinese brands are right there. Bross makes Cube, so they at least know what they're doing enough to produce a World Tour bike. Nobody is saying this is an SL8 beater.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'quality', my issue is one of trusted design. Open mould manufacturers seem very focussed on making pretty bikes that look the part, but the claimed weights are often much lower than reality, and there's no reliable stiffness or aero data as we have with the major brand bikes that Tour tests. I'm sure you can get a bike that looks great in social media posts, but if you are competing or focussed primarily on performance it seems very risky to buy something that might be much slower than something just a bit more expensive from an established brand. Wheels are a different thing as they are easier to test and there is reliable data from YouTubers on the major Chinese wheels brands.

[BikeTyson]

[quote=BenCousins post_id=1844891 time=1704301395 user_id=64323]
[quote=BikeTyson post_id=1844817 time=1704279256 user_id=109573]
[quote=BenCousins post_id=1844725 time=1704210130 user_id=64323]
Hasn't this side of the industry become a lot less interesting now the prices are so high? It used to be a knockoff Pinarello frame for $200 but now I see that Bross Zenith full bike isn't that much cheaper than a Supersix. I don't think a 15-30% lower price is justified for frames with no reliable weight, stiffness or aero data and no aftersales.
[/quote]

Are they that close? I thought the mech 105 version full build was around $2,000 (Supersix is $3,400 for the same group), or $2,600 with 105 Di2/Rival etap. Ultegra Di2 build was around $3,200. Now I get what you're saying but that's still cheaper than an SL8 Pro frameset alone. The higher tier frameset is $2100. You'd be hard pressed to find an upper level frameset for that cheap with western brands. It's for sure not the super cheap prices we were seeing four or five years ago. But it's still quite a bit cheaper than western brands. And in terms of quality, these "top tier" Chinese brands are right there. Bross makes Cube, so they at least know what they're doing enough to produce a World Tour bike. Nobody is saying this is an SL8 beater.
[/quote]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'quality', my issue is one of trusted design. Open mould manufacturers seem very focussed on making pretty bikes that look the part, but the claimed weights are often much lower than reality, and there's no reliable stiffness or aero data as we have with the major brand bikes that Tour tests. I'm sure you can get a bike that looks great in social media posts, but if you are competing or focussed primarily on performance it seems very risky to buy something that might be much slower than something just a bit more expensive from an established brand. Wheels are a different thing as they are easier to test and there is reliable data from YouTubers on the major Chinese wheels brands.
[/quote]

Fair points. And for sure it's hard to know how aero these Chinese aero frames are. With that said, a lot of these factories make the framesets of big western brands. The Bross frame is made by the factory that makes Cube. So perhaps they learn something from producing those frames and incorporate that into the open mold frames.

Another thing that I thought was really interesting came from an interview with the guy from The Tour magazine. He said that pretty much all the frames that they test that "look aero" end up testing really well. He said he can just look at a frame and tell if it's going to be fast. In other words, the eye test is actually pretty accurate. Deep tubes and an aero looking bike usually mean it's pretty aero.

My last point came from the latest Cade Media video in the wind tunnel with Aerocoach. They tested the Scott Foil and Scott Addict. There was a 3.7W difference with bike only, and 2.7W with a rider on it. That's super close between an aero super bike and their light climbing bike. Tested at 35kmph.

All of this is to say that perhaps the aero differences between a tested western bike and these Chinese bikes is closer than we think. Or that it's a marginal difference at best. For pros, yea, the handful of watts is probably worth it. But then again, that's not who is in the market for these bikes. For a normal guy like me who races locally, it's unlikely to make any meaningful difference in my opinion at least. What does make a difference is spending $800 for a frameset compared to $3,000 plus. The person on the bike is a bigger factor than the bike itself for 95% the people on here.

To me it's like the difference between Dura-Ace and Ultegra. Is Dura-Ace better? Yea. But is it worth the extra cost? I won't argue that an open mold is better than an SL8. But is the SL8 $2500 better (Pro frameset at $3300 compared to my $750 Velobuild)? That's a tougher argument. And in my opinion no it's not. The question is really where you draw that line.

[apr46]

Fair points. And for sure it's hard to know how aero these Chinese aero frames are. With that said, a lot of these factories make the framesets of big western brands. The Bross frame is made by the factory that makes Cube. So perhaps they learn something from producing those frames and incorporate that into the open mold frames.

I had thought only that the distribution was confirmed. Bross distributes for Cube in China. It's not an unreasonable assumption to assume a common factory, but its still a big jump to do so. These things are pretty hard to tease out. I am pretty sure it was confimed for example that the Seka Exceed and the Exceed RDC come from different factories.

My last point came from the latest Cade Media video in the wind tunnel with Aerocoach. They tested the Scott Foil and Scott Addict. There was a 3.7W difference with bike only, and 2.7W with a rider on it. That's super close between an aero super bike and their light climbing bike. Tested at 35kmph.

All of this is to say that perhaps the aero differences between a tested western bike and these Chinese bikes is closer than we think. Or that it's a marginal difference at best. For pros, yea, the handful of watts is probably worth it. But then again, that's not who is in the market for these bikes. For a normal guy like me who races locally, it's unlikely to make any meaningful difference in my opinion at least. What does make a difference is spending $800 for a frameset compared to $3,000 plus. The person on the bike is a bigger factor than the bike itself for 95% the people on here.

To me it's like the difference between Dura-Ace and Ultegra. Is Dura-Ace better? Yea. But is it worth the extra cost? I won't argue that an open mold is better than an SL8. But is the SL8 $2500 better (Pro frameset at $3300 compared to my $750 Velobuild)? That's a tougher argument. And in my opinion no it's not. The question is really where you draw that line.

Perhaps its marginal to you, but 3-4W is greater than the difference between many brand's offerings of 45-50mm vs 65-70mm deep wheels at 35km/h. Value is also on the hands of the person buying and besides if you buy and sell off your bikes more often the branded bike might actually be cheaper in the long run due to better resale value.

[Lina]

You can get a SuperSix with 105 for a lot cheaper than $3400 in todays market if you look around even a bit.

Any links? I don't think I've seen one under $3000.

Literally google and calling bike shops.

So...nothing to show that the Chinese bikes are a worse value. Even at $3,000 (which you didn't even show exists), it's $1,000 more expensive. Seems like the Chinese frames are still are great value over a possibly non-existant bike. If you can actually show me something cool. But I haven't seen anything except maybe the second hand market.

Literally under 15 seconds on Google https://www.cyclery.de/en/cannondale-su ... 024-orange. If you have even an ounce of patience you can find one in your size for the same.