Building a Shimano compatible chainset using Sram Red DUB cranks

[joebusby]

@PaulJ Yup, there are differences between each of the 12 speed Shimano chainring/crankarm profiles, as there were with the 11 speed Shimano rings. But if we're honest, if you're looking at this kind of niche product, you're already pretty far down the wormhole and likely not looking to save $100 by using 105 chainrings... (with that said, I do swap my DA big ring for 105 every winter when I move indoors to the trainer for months straight)
@joebusby There are multiple power meter spider options with 8-bolt spindle to 4x110bcd, as well as several non-power options for spiders, but up until now there haven't been any that were contoured to match the R9200 rings, which offers a much cleaner aesthetic.

That's cool; I was just seeing if there was a meaningful gain to be had in weight accepting a little aesthetic loss by not adding an additional spider where you could integrate (and the sigeyi is reliable and about 60g lighter than a DFour).



Actually when I do the maths it isn't much really. 104g sigeyi + 230g pedals (9100) vs 60g spider + 300g pedals (assioma) is pretty marginal, though you do get to use marginally functionally more pleasant pedals.

Oh well!

[EddyTwerckx]

@PaulJ Yup, there are differences between each of the 12 speed Shimano chainring/crankarm profiles, as there were with the 11 speed Shimano rings. But if we're honest, if you're looking at this kind of niche product, you're already pretty far down the wormhole and likely not looking to save $100 by using 105 chainrings... (with that said, I do swap my DA big ring for 105 every winter when I move indoors to the trainer for months straight)
@joebusby There are multiple power meter spider options with 8-bolt spindle to 4x110bcd, as well as several non-power options for spiders, but up until now there haven't been any that were contoured to match the R9200 rings, which offers a much cleaner aesthetic.

That's cool; I was just seeing if there was a meaningful gain to be had in weight accepting a little aesthetic loss by not adding an additional spider where you could integrate (and the sigeyi is reliable and about 60g lighter than a DFour).



Actually when I do the maths it isn't much really. 104g sigeyi + 230g pedals (9100) vs 60g spider + 300g pedals (assioma) is pretty marginal, though you do get to use marginally functionally more pleasant pedals.

Oh well!

Those are some heavy pedals. I bought and weighed all the parts.

101g Sigeyi + 177g Xpedo pedals = 278g
48g Stone spider + 303g Assioma Duo = 351g

For a difference of 73g. I don't find the Shimano pedals to be any better or feel any different than Look. Plus the Xpedo over 50g lighter. Win win.

DFour power meter spider: 167g
Old D1 SRAM Red cranks 170mm: 349g
New E1 SRAM Red cranks 170mm: 309g
Dura-Ace 170mm: 544g (has built in spider so subtract ~50g for more accurate comparison)

[joebusby]

I don't find the Shimano pedals to be any better or feel any different than Look.

Either way, it's sort of still in the marginal category I think, and I would likely err on the side of functionality. I've used a stone spider though before and my shifting suffered - my gut told me it was too flexy.

The big advantage of the Assiomas is as everyone says simply being able to travel, borrow bikes, rent bikes or swap bikes and have reliable power. No doubt a podless lighter set is coming at some point.

[EddyTwerckx]

I don't find the Shimano pedals to be any better or feel any different than Look.

Either way, it's sort of still in the marginal category I think, and I would likely err on the side of functionality. I've used a stone spider though before and my shifting suffered - my gut told me it was too flexy.

The big advantage of the Assiomas is as everyone says simply being able to travel, borrow bikes, rent bikes or swap bikes and have reliable power. No doubt a podless lighter set is coming at some point.

This is Weight Weenies so 70g is pretty big in my book. Especially for the same functionality. I love my Assiomas. Definitely the best power meter I’ve used. But in the month or so using the Sigeyi it’s been spot on with my Assiomas. I lose the L/R balance and maybe a few more metrics that I never use to be honest. If you want the full package of metrics then go Assiomas. But I don’t see any drawbacks to the Sigeyi.

Regarding the Stone spider. I used it in the past for this setup (DA rings, Stone spider, Red cranks, Assiomas). It was great. Zero flex for me at 1600W sprints. Never had any shifting issues, ran just as smooth as my stock Dura Ace setup. I’d buy again.

And I’m still keeping my Assiomas on my race bike. Like you said, for travel they’re great. And I don’t care about the gram savings for my aero race bike. But for my weight weenie build I’d happily take the 70g savings with the Sigeyi.

[Upcountry]

I tried to hold out for a non-pod version of the Assioma's, but finally pulled the trigger on the Garmin Rally RS200's on a good sale for less than the Favero's. I have the Favero XC pedals, and love them, but that increased Q-factor on the road pedals is a no-go for me. Ineviteably this means the Favero update will happen any day now... LOL.

[satanas]

Re Ultegra rings: It seemed from the previous link with all the pix of DA & U bits that the problem was interference between the U chain drop pin and the back of the DA crank. If that's indeed the case then a bit of judicious filing of the pin might fix things.

[Beancouter]

5Dev have just replied to be and the weight is 73 grams. My red cranks are 340g + DA 9200 rings 145g (from memory) + (est) 10g for bolts = 573g in total.

Standard DA9200 approx 685g

A decent saving, but given my power meter spider is only 110g (from memory) saving probably not worth it.

Which brings me back to THM Carbones, but not willing to spend the $$$


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PaulJ]

Re Ultegra rings: It seemed from the previous link with all the pix of DA & U bits that the problem was interference between the U chain drop pin and the back of the DA crank. If that's indeed the case then a bit of judicious filing of the pin might fix things.

I emailed 5Dev to see what their take on it was, but they weren't super helpful tbh. I asked if they list for DA only because of the different profiles just not matching, or if there was a mechanical reason why Ultegra rings won't fit, and they said "You can't physically bolt the ring on, just like trying to use DA cranks with U rings", with no further info. I'm not 100% convinced, the fact you can bolt DA rings onto U cranks says to me they both mount in the same way, and like you say it's the pin inerfering with the arm which prevents U rings going on DA cranks. Perhaps the chain line would be different, which I doubt, but that's another unknown without having all the parts to hand.

[markyboy]

Fair enough (if you don't need a PM)

Progressive grades of sandpaper remove the logo's, then car polish gets them to a mirror shine, (I haven't touched mine since I did it and they still look flawlessy polished)

I done the same with mine then lacquered them looks good.

[Upcountry]

@PaulU, Its kind of not on them to tell a potential customer to use a product in a way that they didn't design it(for a specific chainring)... But yes, its safe to assume you'd simply need to grind down the pin on a 8100 chainring to fit a 9200 crank arm. I don't know if you'd still need to grind it down to fit onto a Sram Red crank arm with this spider. But with that, I don't know why you'd spend $180 for a spider that doesn't match the profile of the chainring when there are $40 spiders that would allow you to run that chainring.
I'm sure you've found this site, but for others to visualize, You'd end up with the opposite of this transition:

[PaulJ]

Because I already have Ultegra chainrings, and forking out for DA ones adds a considerable amount to the cost. If I knew exactly why they do or don't fit, then I'd consider buying the spider first (even with a missmatch in profile, it still looks a lot better than the thinner completely flat spiders in my opinion) with a view to switching to DA rings further down the line. I just thought 5Dev might provide a little more information as to why they don't fit given they designed them (I assume) - I always do this within my profession (Design Engineer). I want my customers to know exactly why a product may or may not work for them, so then they can make an informed decission to try it or not. Honestly though, it's not a big deal, this all sounds a lot more like a rant than it is intended to. There seems to be a bit of a market, even if VERY niche, so I'm sure sooner or later someone on here will get their hands on one and be able to give more info

[OtterSpace]

5Dev have just replied to be and the weight is 73 grams. My red cranks are 340g + DA 9200 rings 145g (from memory) + (est) 10g for bolts = 573g in total.

Standard DA9200 approx 685g

A decent saving, but given my power meter spider is only 110g (from memory) saving probably not worth it.

Which brings me back to THM Carbones, but not willing to spend the $$$


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

At a high level from my view there are a few tiers of $ and g saving crankarm "upgrades" from full Dura-Ace chainset provided a given bikes BB can accept 28-30mm axles and you are not deploying on a rim bike which wants a smaller chainline.

Lowest cost and highest weight starting point is what you have D1 at around 335g. There are cheaper options but they are generally way heavier so I'd avoid.
Next cost tier is E1 (8-bolt) or eliliee x310 (cinch) at around 305g-310g. Personally I'd recommend E1. For anyone already on D1 you can wait out an E1 deal and then sell your D1 to save ~30g.
Next cost tier is eliliee x-novanta (cinch) 274g claimed which saves around 30g from the previous tier but about $350 more so bad $/g. Therefore I'd only put it on an all out build. The 28mm carbon spindle is shimmed to the BB so bearing wear should go on the shims not the shaft.
Next cost tier is THM Clavicula which is fairly limiting but does save a small amount of weight from eliliee x-novanta as THM claims 293g with a spider. However, the spider prevents you from using Shimano rings and setup seems fiddly from what I've read. Plus the bearings sit directly on the carbon spindle which isnt ideal. Obviously $/g is terrible too and they are hard to get. A work of art but seems like you give up a lot to save those last few grams.

The next layer is power vs non power. The crankarm mounted standards (8-bolt, cinch, 3-bolt) can go with either approach from user preference while THM is decided when you order it. There are also no real reviews of THM power which should give anyone pause. With THM & Assioma you are adding 300g pedals which negate the THM weight savings vs a power Sigey ~102g and 188g xpedo sonik (SPD-SL) making eliliee x-novanta cheaper, lighter, and more user friendly. Therefore to me THM only makes sense in late 2024 if you either want to ride without power on non shimano chainrings or are fine with a very expensive unprove PM again without shimano chainrings. This same logic continues for Assioma vs spider PM if you want power on other crankarms. The weight increase of the lighter power spiders (which have many in depth reviews) is less than the delta between light pedals and Assioma making power spider the better way to go from a weight perspective.

Also adding that force and most quarq crankarms are also boatanchors so sadly the crankarm entry point is D1. Also of note is praxis doon (3-bolt) which can make sense if someone already bought in the 3-bolt ecosystem.

For chainrings Shimano is the gold standard on a Shimano bike. Carbon-Ti is like 4g lighter, more expensive, and most would argue lower performance. Extralite is lighter but shift worse and designed for 11s era so only good if making compromises for all out weight savings (these pros & cons match well with THM in my opinion). Everything else is heavier and most would argue shifts worse.

To me this leaves E1 (8-bolt) or eliliee x310 (cinch) + xpedo sonik & Shimano hollowtech chainrings to be the high end recommendation in late 2024. An upgrade to eliliee x-novanta (cinch) makes sense for all out no compromise builds and THM & Extralite for super weenie no power builds.

As bonus tips on SRAM crankarms you can remove the self-extracting cap to save ~5g but it looks ugly as heck unless covered.

You can also vinyl wrap crankarms for a better color match to Dura-Ace chainrings while preserving resale value of your cranks. I use 3m 2080 G12.

wrap.jpg (127.94 KiB) Viewed 574 times

[OtterSpace]

Because I already have Ultegra chainrings, and forking out for DA ones adds a considerable amount to the cost.

I got my DA 52, 50, & 34 chainrings from buying full 160-170mm cranksets and parting them out. The cost of the full crankset is barely more than the chainrings alone and some people already on DA look to buy lower length crankarms with current trends moving to shorter. I got some crazy deals on two cranksets last year so after listing fees I was able to get two sets of DA rings for like $50 or less each.

Attached is a screenshot from my tracking spreadsheet of personal sales for reference. I listed each shimano crankarmset for $299.99 + shipping (buy it now & no offers) iirc and both sold within two months in the dead of winter.

Also the DA and Ult inner rings are basically the same just a tiny bit (2g or less) material removed from DA and different color. The big ring is hallowtech while the small ring is not.

[Upcountry]

Order received! One weighs in at 72.5g, the other at 73g.
Getting right to it, although my 9200 chainrings have yet to arrive yet... Just as we suspected, fitment onto Sram Red(D1 shown here) is perfect. A few quick measurements and it looks like the chainline/offset built into the spider is identical to that of the Quarq DFour. I do think the offset of the 9200 rings is a bit different than the prior gen 9100, but something small enough that its easy to overcome with some derailleur adjustment.

[Upcountry]

Chainrings mocked up... Although I did pull the trigger on some E1 crank arms while I was at it, so those are yet to arrive.
I really like this setup. I never loved the "chunky" look of the Quarq, and this solves the aesthetics; yet to see how I get on with the power meter pedals but its worth trying.

52/36 Chainrings, 170mm D1 Crankarms