Where is new SRAM Red?

[Bikera]

I dont know why people are so resistant to change? UDH will come to road and in 1 or 2 years everybody will use it and forget all about it and about old d.hanger.. It hapens all the time.. QR, then specialized 135 SCS, then 142x12, 148x12, boost.. Bikes always evolve and adopt for better.

If this is referring to my posts then they are being mis-interpreted (if not then I don't think the following is a rebuttal anyway).

It is very clear to me that a T-type RD is a much more rigid & robust design vs. a dopout. I agree that it (via UDH or something similar?) needs to become the de facto standard for new bikes. OTOH it's sometimes hard (for me) to part with a frame (my non-UDH S-Works Roubaix) which I love and is only a few years old. So I was merely trying to get a better understanding of the DS spacing of SRAM XPLR 13s (i.e., how the cassette fits on XDR, uses a 12s chain and why it doesn't mess up the chainline esp. w/ a wide crankset, and whether the rumor of a T-type RD adapter is real). I now understand this all better even if the pictures were of no help to me. But that doesn't mean I'm a Luddite (OK maybe that statement's a rebuttal).

[ichobi]

I would really like to see how this SRAM's UDH trojan horse going to play out in the road world, and how Shimano would deal with it.

[pmprego]

I would really like to see how this SRAM's UDH trojan horse going to play out in the road world, and how Shimano would deal with it.

Love the conspiracy theory. Makes it soap opera style. Like it.

[jayjay]

Is it a good idea to buy a road bike without UDH if you plan to own a bike for several years?

[TobinHatesYou]

Is it a good idea to buy a road bike without UDH if you plan to own a bike for several years?

If you need a road bike now, you gotta do what you gotta do, but we all know full-mount road RDs are on the horizon.

Also no brand is going to just partially support UDH for MTB and gravel while leaving it out on road. We’re one more update cycle away from Trek, Specialized, Cervelo, Cannondale, etc. being completely UDH on road…even the low-end bikes like the Domane AL have it.

[MayhemSWE]

Is it a good idea to buy a road bike without UDH if you plan to own a bike for several years?

Uhh, depends on how long "several years" is and which groupset(s) you plan to use obviously. Considering SRAM just refreshed 2x12 Red I doubt it will be upgraded to UDH full mount anytime soon. If you prefer Shimano or Campagnolo neither of those seem likely to jump on UDH full mount unless the market absolutely demands it.

[pmprego]

Is it a good idea to buy a road bike without UDH if you plan to own a bike for several years?

Uhh, depends on how long "several years" is and which groupset(s) you plan to use obviously. Considering SRAM just refreshed 2x12 Red I doubt it will be upgraded to UDH full mount anytime soon. If you prefer Shimano or Campagnolo neither of those seem likely to jump on UDH full mount unless the market absolutely demands it.

Shimano going 2x13spd would probably be the only way of they try to claim that they were ahead of sram.

No matter what niche people here say, for common shop customers, sram can now claim as good braking and shifting, easier gearing (more range) and fully wireless (which in the shop floor is a easier sell than semi-wireless from shimano).

So... 2x13spd would be the marketing claim tk recover some recognition.

[Hexsense]

Yeah, but if Shimano don't go Sram route of extending cassette width, they'd have to make chain even narrower. I don't know if I like that idea.
I might just hold off and stay on 2x12 unless things proove reliable and not so finicky.

[Nickldn]

Yeah, but if Shimano don't go Sram route of extending cassette width, they'd have to make chain even narrower. I don't know if I like that idea.
I might just hold off and stay on 2x12 unless things proove reliable and not so finicky.

Why do you think narrower chains are such a bad thing? Yes I get there is less leeway for FD shifts if the chain is narrower and the materials need to better quality to maintain strength, but Shimano front shifting is exemplary anyway and we all know Shimano chains could be made more durable. Just look at SRAM Red AXS chains for a paragon of durability, if Shimano step up they can make a narrower chain just as durable as their current 12s.

[TobinHatesYou]

Yeah, but if Shimano don't go Sram route of extending cassette width, they'd have to make chain even narrower. I don't know if I like that idea.
I might just hold off and stay on 2x12 unless things proove reliable and not so finicky.

Why do you think narrower chains are such a bad thing? Yes I get there is less leeway for FD shifts if the chain is narrower and the materials need to better quality to maintain strength, but Shimano front shifting is exemplary anyway and we all know Shimano chains could be made more durable. Just look at SRAM Red AXS chains for a paragon of durability, if Shimano step up they can make a narrower chain just as durable as their current 12s.

The point is they’d have to go even narrower than SRAM unless they adopt a full-mount system. And if they do that, they may as well make it fit UDH frames instead of trying to fight it.

[ArtV]

Yeah, but if Shimano don't go Sram route of extending cassette width, they'd have to make chain even narrower. I don't know if I like that idea.
I might just hold off and stay on 2x12 unless things proove reliable and not so finicky.

Why do you think narrower chains are such a bad thing? Yes I get there is less leeway for FD shifts if the chain is narrower and the materials need to better quality to maintain strength, but Shimano front shifting is exemplary anyway and we all know Shimano chains could be made more durable. Just look at SRAM Red AXS chains for a paragon of durability, if Shimano step up they can make a narrower chain just as durable as their current 12s.

The point is they’d have to go even narrower than SRAM unless they adopt a full-mount system. And if they do that, they may as well make it fit UDH frames instead of trying to fight it.

"less leeway for FD shifts if the chain is narrower and the materials need to better quality to maintain strength" - isn't that enough? I wouldn't want FD shifting to require more precision than is currently required while paying more for a chain because it is made from better quality materials.

[TobinHatesYou]

Do new products matter if they're all just iterations of the same old products with the same old flaws and they don't work together with already existing products?

Shimano is so far behind SRAM especially on the gravel space that no matter what Shimano releases it's just trying to play catch up. And if they were to surprise everyone and release a 1x13 GRX SRAM could just release their Force XPLR 13-speed the next day and undercut them on price.

Yeah seriously, the release of 2x12 RX825 Di2 has been nothing short of catastrophic. If the major brands haven’t put out a bike model with it by now, they aren’t ever going to.

Out of 11 Crux offerings, only one is equipped with Shimano RX820 mechanical.
AFAIK, none of the Checkmate SLRs or Checkpoint SLs being released in 6 days use GRX.

As expected, three models of Checkmate and three models of the new Checkpoint...all AXS.

[nathanong87]

question, can i use new e1 shifters with my etap HRD (11 speed) calipers?

or i'll have to use at minimum the 2 piece red axs (d1) calipers.

[MayhemSWE]

question, can i use new e1 shifters with my etap HRD (11 speed) calipers?

or i'll have to use at minimum the 2 piece red axs (d1) calipers.

Why would you want to use either when the new calipers are (supposedly) lighter, stiffer and have better pad clearance?

[nathanong87]

cost mainly. i already have etap HRD calipers and the e1 'exchange kit' (shifters and cables) is like 730$ without vs 1400$ with calipers.