Where is new SRAM Red?

[apr46]

BikeTyson, nobody understands what you’re saying because it makes no sense. If you start in 2x12 and shift all they to 1x1, when you crossover from 2->1 you might make 2 compensation shifts. This results in using 15 different gear ratios. On the off chance that you made 3 compensation shifts, it would be 16. That’s definitely possible if you crossover earlier, but synchro-shift logic prefers holding the crossover until on downshifts until you get to the bigger cogs.

You cannot argue this. You’re just very confused.

I’m not confused. Not at all. You are arguing a point that I fully get and have never contested. You keep arguing it and I’m agreeing with you. 2x gives you redundant gears. You keep saying it as if I’m disagreeing with you but I’ve already stated that I agree with that. I’m not sure why you keep wanting to argue a point that I agree with but you do you. I’m saying that I use those (redundant) gears differently. Because you can reach those gears either from the big ring or the small ring. So I’m saying that you get 16 unique gears, but with 2x you can get to them differently, giving you 22 different combinations. And it’s almost always going to be more efficient than 1x. So in the synchro shift page posted above, you have gears locked out. I’m just saying that I use those gears. Like big-big. The synchro shift doesn’t let you use this combo. I use it.

@biketyson your argument makes little sense in terms of how I ride and how most people i have ever ridden with ride.

I love my 2x and I am not giving it up for 13 spd red. However, running 2x with compensation shifting and non sram rings for more range, i still only get 16 distinct ratios up or down the cassette. I am not gear hunting with the FD to get an in-between ratio. Maybe you do it but that has to put you in the minority of riders and I dont think I have ever seen someone do that.

I do think the protoype TRP Classified system was programed to do that with its synchro shifting mode and every reviewer at Eurobike who tried the bike with that feature called it "weird."

[BikeTyson]

BikeTyson, nobody understands what you’re saying because it makes no sense. If you start in 2x12 and shift all they to 1x1, when you crossover from 2->1 you might make 2 compensation shifts. This results in using 15 different gear ratios. On the off chance that you made 3 compensation shifts, it would be 16. That’s definitely possible if you crossover earlier, but synchro-shift logic prefers holding the crossover until on downshifts until you get to the bigger cogs.

You cannot argue this. You’re just very confused.

I’m not confused. Not at all. You are arguing a point that I fully get and have never contested. You keep arguing it and I’m agreeing with you. 2x gives you redundant gears. You keep saying it as if I’m disagreeing with you but I’ve already stated that I agree with that. I’m not sure why you keep wanting to argue a point that I agree with but you do you. I’m saying that I use those (redundant) gears differently. Because you can reach those gears either from the big ring or the small ring. So I’m saying that you get 16 unique gears, but with 2x you can get to them differently, giving you 22 different combinations. And it’s almost always going to be more efficient than 1x. So in the synchro shift page posted above, you have gears locked out. I’m just saying that I use those gears. Like big-big. The synchro shift doesn’t let you use this combo. I use it.

@biketyson your argument makes little sense in terms of how I ride and how most people i have ever ridden with ride.

I love my 2x and I am not giving it up for 13 spd red. However, running 2x with compensation shifting and non sram rings for more range, i still only get 16 distinct ratios up or down the cassette. I am not gear hunting with the FD to get an in-between ratio. Maybe you do it but that has to put you in the minority of riders and I dont think I have ever seen someone do that.

I do think the protoype TRP Classified system was programed to do that with its synchro shifting mode and every reviewer at Eurobike who tried the bike with that feature called it "weird."

Again, I agree: 16 unique gear ratios. Lots of redundant gears. I don’t get how that has become the argument because we all agree here. And I certainly am not gear hunting with the FD as you put it. Quite the opposite actually. That was actually my point. I’m using the FD less. And I doubt that my riding big-big is that weird. It’s not uncommon with people I ride with and you see pros doing it all the time. The whole notion that big-big is a no no is outdated with modern drivetrains. And I’d actually be surprised if most people (not using synchro shift) don’t use at least 18+ gear combinations over a ride unless they live in flat terrain.

[TobinHatesYou]

BikeTyson do you really not understand that your usage of different crossover points cannot be considered an advantage over a theoretical 1x15? You. Do. Not. Need. To. Get. To. Those. 15 unique ratios. Differently. With 1x. It’s not needed and it’s obviously not possible. It is not an advantage of 2x to crossover when you want to. It is merely a mechanism that exists.

[BikeTyson]

BikeTyson do you really not understand that your usage of different crossover points cannot be considered an advantage over a theoretical 1x15? You. Do. Not. Need. To. Get. To. Those. 15 unique ratios. Differently. With 1x. It’s not need and it’s obviously not possible. It is not an advantage of 2x to crossover when you want to. It is merely a mechanism that exists.

It’s like I’m talking to a brick wall. 15 gears. Cool. Do you have a link to the 15 gear 1x drivetrain you keep bringing up? No? Ah that’s too bad. You keep arguing this point as if it exists. Guess I’m stuck with the 15 gears of 2x.

Edit: You even stated that it’s theoretical. Lol.

[spartan]

biketyson you do not seem to understand gear ratios. in a 2 by 11 their is usally 14 unique ratios. the rest are duplicates.

here look at this image.



src https://rotoramerica.com/pages/1x13-tech

[BikeTyson]

biketyson you do not seem to understand gear ratios. in a 2 by 11 their is usally 14 unique ratios. the rest are duplicates.

here look at this image.



src https://rotoramerica.com/pages/1x13-tech

OMG this is hilarious. I fully understand gear ratios. With 2x12 you get 15 unique gear ratios. I’ve said this like ten times by this point. Did you even read the last few pages? Do YOU understand gear ratios? With 2x there are redundant gear ratios so you really only get 15 unique gears. Maybe it’s hard for you to grasp this concept. Refer to all the figures posted over the last few pages. You’ll get it eventually.

[TobinHatesYou]

biketyson you do not seem to understand

This really is the crux of it. It’s amazing. No argument that 1x13 is less than 2x12, but the argument that 2x12 is somehow 22 useful gears is hilarious. It’s 24 gears that exist, and one may use them under circumstances, but it’s not an advantage to have redundant gear ratios.

What’s next, arguing there are 8 days in a week?

[pmprego]

Lets hope sram doesnt launch the 2x13spd anytime soon or this discussion will never end.

[BikeTyson]

biketyson you do not seem to understand

This really is the crux of it. It’s amazing. No argument that 1x13 is less than 2x12, but the argument that 2x12 is somehow 22 useful gears is hilarious. It’s 24 gears that exist, and one may use them under circumstances, but it’s not an advantage to have redundant gear ratios.

What’s next, arguing there are 8 days in a week?

What I honestly find hilarious is that you keep arguing a point that I am agreeing with. It’s quite funny to read post after post arguing your point, and I keep agreeing with you. And yet you keep arguing it. It’s really funny that we agree but you want to argue. I mean, if you can’t get that you get 15 unique gears with 2x12 I can’t help you. Even though I’ve said it like 10 times. And don’t get me started on days of the week. I’d probably agree with you but you’d need 20 posts telling your point with every response of me saying yes, I agree. But I guess it takes you that long for it to set in. So I’ll say it one more time for posterity and maybe you can get it. 2x12 gets you 15 unique gears. 15 is more than 13.

[BikeTyson]

Lets hope sram doesnt launch the 2x13spd anytime soon or this discussion will never end.

Don’t you bring that evil in here. Math is already confusing too many people on here. We don’t need more.

[apr46]

Assuming that gear hunting is out the window, the other suggestion that I think @biketyson is making is the idea that you would shift earlier into the little ring at the base of a large climb and maybe not shift at all into the big / big big on rolling terrain. In either case IF you needed an easier ratio or to go faster you had access to 15 or 16t.

Likely in the first scenario you could tighter spacing from your ratios than you would from a 1x as a 35 front ring and an 12, 13, 14, 15, would be a tighter progression. But, without gear hunting you get tradeoffs elsewhere in cassette, and again I think its rare to ride in small small combos despite the benefit of tighter ratios.

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[BikeTyson]

Assuming that gear hunting is out the window, the other suggestion that I think @biketyson is making is the idea that you would shift earlier into the little ring at the base of a large climb and maybe not shift at all into the big / big big on rolling terrain. In either case IF you needed an easier ratio or to go faster you had access to 15 or 16t.

Likely in the first scenario you could tighter spacing from your ratios than you would from a 1x as a 35 front ring and an 12, 13, 14, 15, would be a tighter progression. But, without gear hunting you get tradeoffs elsewhere in cassette, and again I think its rare to ride in small small combos despite the benefit of tighter ratios.

Sort of. You’ve got the gist of it. It’s more that with 1x13 you get 13 gears. With 2x12 you get 15. So for one the jumps are smaller. But my point was more that since a 1x15 group doesn’t exist, you have to use 2x to get that many unique gears. So if you accept that you have to use 2x12 to get that many gears, it would make sense to use all of them to minimize FD shifts in my eyes. So I’m saying that I use 22 different chainring-cassette combos. Yes it’s 15 unique gear ratios. That was never the question. It was all about minimizing FD shifts. Since 1x15 doesn’t exist, minimizing FD shifts is going to get you the closest to that. At least, closer than shifting your FD up and down fifty times a ride. If I’m using 2x to get more gears, why not utilize the whole cassette and chainring combos? If 1x15 existed I wouldn’t be arguing for 2x. But it doesn’t. I’m not sure why Tobin keeps trying argue unique gears when I’ve said it a bunch that I agree that 2x12 has 15 unique gear ratios. That was never my point.

[TobinHatesYou]

BikeTyson, the distillation of my complaint is your portrayal of delayed front shifts as advantageous. Advantageous over what? Over a system that never needs to delay an impossible front shift? Over another 2x system somehow? The point was that saying you use 22 gear combos is immaterial. Most of us do it with 2x and it is irrelevant to 1x.

[paulbike]

Just a random comment.
I've had the group set for 7 weeks now and about 1500mi of riding, and I haven't had a single dropped chain. With red d1, I would've had at least one dropped chain by now.
I set up the front Derailleur myself using the SRAM tool in less than 5 minutes.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

I had one today during a Fondo. First one.

Hadn't dropped a chain in more than 6 months on the D1