Tadej Pogacar’s Giro Crash: Final Nail in the Hookless Coffin?

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

RoadDonk82
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:43 pm

by RoadDonk82

I truly believe that it was some combo of luck, skill, and pure chance that kept me from getting unnecessarily seriously injured yesterday. Is SRAM really just going to ignore that and say, “whoops, our bad, here’s a new rim laced to your hub! Happy riding!”

I just really don’t think I’ll be able to ride 353s again with confidence. And, as a result, I’ll have to sell the wheels at a loss and get new wheels that will likely drive down the future value of my bike.

Do you guys think I have any other options here?
Maybe think of a subtle way to threaten them with social media backlash so they refund the money.
I am sorry for your situation. It seems individual customers are helpless and any kind of legal measures are very expensive and the outcome uncertain. If someone making a decision knows there will be more of that case in public unless they refund they will go that way but if it's a direct threat they will probably not.

rollinslow
Posts: 895
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:25 am
Location: New York

by rollinslow

The fact that they just throw a new wheel at the problems or for just about any reason shows how dirt cheap it is for them to manufacture a hookless rim, and disc brake. If they had more skin in the game it would be different.

I would try to get a refund. Then go buy some Bora WTO's where this is a non-issue.
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Super Record 12
Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12 [viewtopic.php?t=161577]
Kestrel RT700 (2008)-Dura Ace 9000
Mosaic GT-1 (2020)-SRAM Red (sold)

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



justonwo
Posts: 472
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 9:16 pm

by justonwo

LedZeppelin007 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 3:28 pm
I also find it hilarious that the tires that came on my bike (Pirelli P-Zero Race SL TLR in 28C) are no longer supported for the 353. I wonder if BMC has some culpability as well.

I’m a simple man. I want good, reliable, and fast stuff. We certainly pay more than enough to have that.

But when you are getting put in life-threatening situations because of design decisions even when strictly following guidelines and have been directly reassured by the company beforehand that the design is perfectly safe. Well, that’s upsetting.

I’m not a litigious guy and I hope to never sue anyone. But, if I’d had a serious accident because of that yesterday, I would consider suing Zipp and maybe a couple of others.

We all have to deal with enough sh*t as cyclists without needing to worry about tires blowing off $4400 wheels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I think with a little persistence with your shop or getting ahold of the right person at Zipp, they'll replace the wheel. Then you can at least sell that wheel as brand new. Or sell the set without too bad of a loss. This is concerning, as I have 353s as well.
2020 F12 AXS Red (Zipp 353)
2021 S-Works Aethos Di2 9200 (Alpinist CLX II)
2006 Cervelo Soloist
2021 S-Works Epic
2024 Topstone Lab71 (Force/XX1, Terra CLX II)

Retired: 2014 and 2020 S-Works Roubaix
2020 Canyon Ultimate
2018 S-Works Camber

LedZeppelin007
Posts: 705
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:46 pm

by LedZeppelin007

Seriously considering picking up some Bontrager Aeolus RSL 51s on sale.

Feel like they would look super corny on a BMC, but the price, performance, warranty, and hooks are right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Jaisen
Posts: 610
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:01 am

by Jaisen

LedZeppelin007 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2024 12:09 am
Seriously considering picking up some Bontrager Aeolus RSL 51s on sale.

Feel like they would look super corny on a BMC, but the price, performance, warranty, and hooks are right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Really nice wheels but it is either the perfect or worst time for them. They are due for a refresh and the sales likely indicate they are moving stock before new models. So great if you don't mind having a slightly older design, bad if you will end up dissapointed if a new set launches in 2 months. But yeah the warranty is great and I especially like how Trek lets you test ride equipment for up to 30 days no questions asked return policy. I wish that was standard practice.

EtoDemerzel
Posts: 257
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2023 4:13 pm

by EtoDemerzel

Stickers or permanent graphics on the Bontragers? If they are stickers, i'd run them

User avatar
wheelbuilder
Posts: 1298
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:10 am

by wheelbuilder

LedZeppelin007 wrote:Seriously considering picking up some Bontrager Aeolus RSL 51s on sale.

Feel like they would look super corny on a BMC, but the price, performance, warranty, and hooks are right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I look at it a different way. When I see guys with mixed components it looks like they are after peak performance and they know what they are doing. That said, bontrager made and designs great carbon wheels. You will be happy. I have a set of aeolus tlr d3's that I still use often. Look up some of their white paper stuff and ask around.
Never cheer before you know who is winning

mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

On replacements, the Rapide CLs have been popping up on some good deals here and there.

They're somewhat of a benchmark wheel aero wise, have reliable dt Swiss hubs and are far cheaper than the likes of the Zipps you're replacing or Enve's you've been looking at.

Who cares if they're being updated soon, that'll still be the case if you choose an alternative wheel :D and the only imminent update is the limited edition carbon spoke version you probably won't be able to buy anyway.

If nothing else, they sound like a good set of wheels to have around spare if you ever go back to a more premium lightweight wheel in the future!

bobones
Posts: 1318
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

@mikehhhhhhhh Given LZ's blowout, what's your opinion on road hookless now? I'm genuinely interested if you or anyone else is continuing to stand behind the technology.

TLN
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:50 pm

by TLN

LedZeppelin007 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 5:49 pm
Please bring your 353NSW to a local dealer and ask them to submit a claim with our Tech and Warranty Center.
A tire should stay seated on the rim and hold a seal. Please ask your shop to mention pressures and TyreWiz readings for detail.
That kinda reads as they want you to bring damaged wheel with tire still on it.
mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Thu May 23, 2024 7:59 am
On replacements, the Rapide CLs have been popping up on some good deals here and there.
Or ask Zipp about demo wheels while they investigate your case. If new Rovals are coming, I'd wait month or two.
Issue is that Zipp wheels will be hookless as well :roll:
His: Orbea Orca OMX
Hers: Cannondale Synapse HM Disc

mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

bobones wrote:
Thu May 23, 2024 8:34 am
@mikehhhhhhhh Given LZ's blowout, what's your opinion on road hookless now? I'm genuinely interested if you or anyone else is continuing to stand behind the technology.
It hasn't changed tbh.

This isn't the first hookless (or hooked) blowout I've heard of. There are 101 possible reasons for failures, hookless is just one of them.

For example, there's a post earlier in this thread where someone has rabbit holed on failures of Pirelli's manufacturered in the new factory.

That said, I'm open to the possibility that the 353 played a part, which is why I encouraged the OP to push hard with both Zipp and Pirelli. But I'll need to see evidence to have my mind changed.

Lina
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

I'm not sure what more evidence you need to see. We have it all here, tire pressure data combined with video footage of it happening.

mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

Lina wrote:
Thu May 23, 2024 10:00 am
I'm not sure what more evidence you need to see. We have it all here, tire pressure data combined with video footage of it happening.
There's no tyre pressure data, his rear tyrewiz stopped updating a few minutes into the ride, and the video adds nothing unless you simply didn't believe him.

We still have no idea whether he punctured, whether the tyre was faulty or damaged, the rim was damaged etc. etc. etc. there's no evidence that a well maintained and intact 353 was to blame here, though I'd welcome it!

You're of course free to use this to reinforce your negative views about hookless, that's also completely reasonable.

steve028
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu May 23, 2024 8:21 am

by steve028

very true, seems pointless at this stage with little advantage

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



6fu
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:59 am

by 6fu

mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Thu May 23, 2024 8:53 am
bobones wrote:
Thu May 23, 2024 8:34 am
@mikehhhhhhhh Given LZ's blowout, what's your opinion on road hookless now? I'm genuinely interested if you or anyone else is continuing to stand behind the technology.
It hasn't changed tbh.

This isn't the first hookless (or hooked) blowout I've heard of. There are 101 possible reasons for failures, hookless is just one of them.

For example, there's a post earlier in this thread where someone has rabbit holed on failures of Pirelli's manufacturered in the new factory.

That said, I'm open to the possibility that the 353 played a part, which is why I encouraged the OP to push hard with both Zipp and Pirelli. But I'll need to see evidence to have my mind changed.

99% of bikes on the road today have wheels with hooks but somehow we only see blowouts like this the minority that are hookless :roll:

Post Reply