Why Campagnolo Wireless is a Flop/Disaster

[NickB]

Had a long think about this. For me the thumb shifter is about being on top of bars and flicking my little finger out to change up. Blippers will negate this so ok its gone.
Anybody who thinks the Chinese option LONG TERM is a solution needs a lesson in demographics.
Hope it all trickles down.
105 and GRX 12 is just round the corner.
Me if buying new Centaur with 12 up cassette and an Ultegra 12 crank as the Centaur one is ugly and a boat anchor. (Shimano bearing design nice and simple too).
Campagnolo lasts longer so my multiple Potenza installs should be good for years.

[robertbb]

The further we stray from mechanical shifting, the further we stray from affordable groupsets.

Except it's actually cheaper to produce electronic groupsets - particularly once the initial design work is done.

No ratchets, no springs, no cam mechanism, pull ratios or materials wear testing... no intricate small parts (like a mechanical watch). No complex assembly - especially at the shifter. Just a printed circuit and some logic chips. Motors are very cheap too - particularly in bulk.

Electronic sounds fancy but as a feat of engineering and manufacturing they are actually WAY easier.

Manufacturers must be loving it - half the cost to produce, double (or triple) the RRP.

Then why aren't electronic groupsets cheaper?

Because they're complex to develop and the brands need to recover profit from those R&D expenditures. So sure, perhaps in 10+ years when they've recovered those expenditures, they'll consider cutting margins.

Because they can get away with charging more. It's the same reason we're paying more for almost everthing - inflation is part of the story, while corporate greed and opportunism is the other.

The costs are well and truly amortised and recovered for Shimano and SRAM. I'd be surprised if it costs more than a few dollars to produce a set of eTap or Di2 shifters, for example. And that's for Dura Ace and Red. People just don't understand how cheap this stuff is to mass produce.

[robertbb]

Had a long think about this. For me the thumb shifter is about being on top of bars and flicking my little finger out to change up. Blippers will negate this so ok its gone.
Anybody who thinks the Chinese option LONG TERM is a solution needs a lesson in demographics.
Hope it all trickles down.
105 and GRX 12 is just round the corner.
Me if buying new Centaur with 12 up cassette and an Ultegra 12 crank as the Centaur one is ugly and a boat anchor. (Shimano bearing design nice and simple too).
Campagnolo lasts longer so my multiple Potenza installs should be good for years.

How far off is GRX 12?
Asking for a friend

[mag]

How far off is GRX 12?
Asking for a friend

Not very far it seems:
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/products/ ... und-gravel
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brand- ... nd-gravel/

[warthog101]

Because they can get away with charging more. It's the same reason we're paying more for almost everthing - inflation is part of the story, while corporate greed and opportunism is the other.

Sums up road tubeless too imo.

[TobinHatesYou]

I save money on road tubeless because now my tires actually wear down to the cord instead of having to throw them away once they start inducing chronic inner tube punctures.

[warthog101]

Never had chronic inner tube punctures. I always ran my finger around the inside of the tyre when fixing a puncture. Regularly checked from the outside for stuff embedded in the tyre too. Not saying it couldn't happen, just that it didn't to me.
Yes punctures are drastically reduced with tubeless

I am still on them but the price sh it's me.
Supply and demand I guess. Popular and people are paying the premium asked.
I am just buying largely on price and BRR results, so long as the price is less than $80-90 AUD

[naylor343]

The further we stray from mechanical shifting, the further we stray from affordable groupsets.

Except it's actually cheaper to produce electronic groupsets - particularly once the initial design work is done.

No ratchets, no springs, no cam mechanism, pull ratios or materials wear testing... no intricate small parts (like a mechanical watch). No complex assembly - especially at the shifter. Just a printed circuit and some logic chips. Motors are very cheap too - particularly in bulk.

Electronic sounds fancy but as a feat of engineering and manufacturing they are actually WAY easier.

Manufacturers must be loving it - half the cost to produce, double (or triple) the RRP.

Then why aren't electronic groupsets cheaper?

Because they're complex to develop and the brands need to recover profit from those R&D expenditures. So sure, perhaps in 10+ years when they've recovered those expenditures, they'll consider cutting margins.

14 years since di2 7950 was released and there appears to be little sign of prices reducing due to easier production.

[wheelbuilder]

I am waiting to see if the new white logoed Super Record crankset in 45/29 would work with the existing mechanical SR12 shifting system.

It seems the Q-factor increased by 2mm: is that true?
It's listed as 147.5mm now on various websites and the Campagnolo Tech manual even shows 148mm?

Yes. Why? Not sure, guessing they couldn’t figure out how to reduce the bulk of the FD, which already has a fairly limited 34mm max tire clearance.

Lol at 34 being fairly limiting.

[robertbb]

The further we stray from mechanical shifting, the further we stray from affordable groupsets.

Except it's actually cheaper to produce electronic groupsets - particularly once the initial design work is done.

No ratchets, no springs, no cam mechanism, pull ratios or materials wear testing... no intricate small parts (like a mechanical watch). No complex assembly - especially at the shifter. Just a printed circuit and some logic chips. Motors are very cheap too - particularly in bulk.

Electronic sounds fancy but as a feat of engineering and manufacturing they are actually WAY easier.

Manufacturers must be loving it - half the cost to produce, double (or triple) the RRP.

Then why aren't electronic groupsets cheaper?

Because they're complex to develop and the brands need to recover profit from those R&D expenditures. So sure, perhaps in 10+ years when they've recovered those expenditures, they'll consider cutting margins.

14 years since di2 7950 was released and there appears to be little sign of prices reducing due to easier production.

Which says nothing whatsoever about the profit margin. They charge more because the market's told them they can continue to do so. Not because it's more expensive to produce than mechanical.

[Lina]

Never had chronic inner tube punctures. I always ran my finger around the inside of the tyre when fixing a puncture. Regularly checked from the outside for stuff embedded in the tyre too. Not saying it couldn't happen, just that it didn't to me.
Yes punctures are drastically reduced with tubeless

I am still on them but the price sh it's me.
Supply and demand I guess. Popular and people are paying the premium asked.
I am just buying largely on price and BRR results, so long as the price is less than $80-90 AUD

And how often did you run your tubed tires all the way to the thread? Because you can do that with tubeless without getting constant punctures. Which is something that starts happening once the tire wears down too much with tubes.

[BenCousins]

Let's hope that the Chinese shake the market up, just like they did with carbon rims

Be careful what you wish for

https://scashwin.medium.com/the-case-of ... ac9a35db56

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenni ... s-economy/

[rollinslow]

I am waiting to see if the new white logoed Super Record crankset in 45/29 would work with the existing mechanical SR12 shifting system.

It seems the Q-factor increased by 2mm: is that true?
It's listed as 147.5mm now on various websites and the Campagnolo Tech manual even shows 148mm?

Yes. Why? Not sure, guessing they couldn’t figure out how to reduce the bulk of the FD, which already has a fairly limited 34mm max tire clearance.

Lol at 34 being fairly limiting.

And that's on 410mm chainstays. Presumably, if you were running this on a gravel bike you would have longer stays easily inreasing the tire size capability.

[Xabi]

Let's hope that the Chinese shake the market up, just like they did with carbon rims

Be careful what you wish for

https://scashwin.medium.com/the-case-of ... ac9a35db56

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenni ... s-economy/

It's the American brand the one that produces in cheap Asian countries. campagnolo produces in Italy and mostly eastern Europe, Shimano in Japan and Malaysia.

Western brands produce/buy their frames from Asia, I would rather not pay for a brand that just increases the price in marketing/sponsoring.

[StiffWeenies]

It seems the Q-factor increased by 2mm: is that true?
It's listed as 147.5mm now on various websites and the Campagnolo Tech manual even shows 148mm?

Yes. Why? Not sure, guessing they couldn’t figure out how to reduce the bulk of the FD, which already has a fairly limited 34mm max tire clearance.

Lol at 34 being fairly limiting.

And that's on 410mm chainstays. Presumably, if you were running this on a gravel bike you would have longer stays easily inreasing the tire size capability.

it'll be a problem on 405mm chainstay bikes like Giant and Factor