2024 Pro thread

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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Karvalo
Posts: 3604
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

eins4eins wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:42 am
The extension until 2027 was in 2022 already. A german podcaster - rider agent himself - said that pidcock might be getting too expensive for Ineos because his contract includes significant salary increases for wins. Getting him off the payroll might be in the interest of the team, as it would free up a lot of budget. Add to that the transfer fee they would receive.
Doesn't make much sense. Ineos's budget is still gargantuan, and they have a distinct lack of superstar names right now. Heck - they lost most of their 2nd tier GC contenders in the last two off seasons and didn't get any of their major transfer targets (cough Remco cough). Ineos can't possibly be in a budgetary hole unless they are paying staggeringly too much money to a bunch of other riders who are currently winning *f##k* all.

'Fixing' that problem (if it exists which I doubt) by getting rid of their only current superstar would be the the worst solution possible.

by Weenie


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eins4eins
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Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:49 am

by eins4eins

Per his job he knows about the things going on behind the scenes and his opinion is always very well informed.
The team probably also expected more from Pidcock and the bet by increasing his salary, didn't turn out to be very successful. He might be a superstar in the media, but i don't think its unfair to say he's behind expectations results wise. Two world tour race wins and stage at the tour isn't that much.

spud
Posts: 1318
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:52 am

by spud

Pidcocks problem is that he is usually competing against generational talents like Pogacar and VDP. Hard to win against those guys when they are on form.
Re PVP, impressive performance, but never showed an iota of emotion or effort. She looked more like meditating than racing a bike. Contrast that with Puck Pieterse - you know she's giving it everything she has.

jever98
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Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:02 pm
Location: Seattle

by jever98

Tangential pet peeve: why is it that in every live ticker and live broadcast - with the exception of Tour de Suisse - they give "km to go", but the graphic counts up, and you have to do the mental maths to figure out where they are on the course profile? It's just dumb.

It was very refreshing to see the Tour de Suisse graphic do things "right" https://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour- ... ve-report/
----
No longer in the industry

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

eins4eins wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 12:49 pm
Per his job he knows about the things going on behind the scenes and his opinion is always very well informed.
The team probably also expected more from Pidcock and the bet by increasing his salary, didn't turn out to be very successful. He might be a superstar in the media, but i don't think its unfair to say he's behind expectations results wise. Two world tour race wins and stage at the tour isn't that much.
we live in such bizarre times where media exposure may count more than actual results. Ineos' bosses, if anything, might be frustrated with lack of straight up dominance (after all they took over SKY at their very prime; trying to compare today's team with what they 'bought' doesn't look like a great ROI)

and as for Pid himself - I believe he's a star in MTB and UK scene. for the rest of road cycling fans he's that dude who wins when the best boys are absent (Strade..) and generaly speaking just underdelivers compared to the hype. that's obviously taking into account hardly any roadie follows MTB; i know i hardly do, and can't remember discussing MTB racing with anyone in the 'real world', be that at lbs, or a ride, or whatever :noidea:
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

Karvalo
Posts: 3604
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

eins4eins wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 12:49 pm
Per his job he knows about the things going on behind the scenes and his opinion is always very well informed.
The team probably also expected more from Pidcock and the bet by increasing his salary, didn't turn out to be very successful.
So the problem is that he has both won too much and yet not enough?

This is sounding a bit Chinese whispers...

eins4eins
Posts: 813
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:49 am

by eins4eins

Karvalo wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 4:53 pm

So the problem is that he has both won too much and yet not enough?

This is sounding a bit Chinese whispers...
If acting stupid is your style of discussing different opinions i'm out of this.

Karvalo
Posts: 3604
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

eins4eins wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:00 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 4:53 pm
So the problem is that he has both won too much and yet not enough?

This is sounding a bit Chinese whispers...
If acting stupid is your style of discussing different opinions i'm out of this.
In case you've forgotten, this was your claim: pidcock might be getting too expensive for Ineos because his contract includes significant salary increases for wins. If he's not winning as much as they wanted him to, how is his contract becoming too expensive due to increases for winning? If you think that sounds stupid, it's really on you.

Regardless of which, just check out the roster of contenders and probable wage bill at Ineos now vs a couple of years ago. If they genuinely can't afford Pidcock even now among the lowest talent/palmares lineup they've had for over a decade then they are a dead team. Bereft of life, they will cease to be.

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CJosephB
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:48 pm

by CJosephB

The Netflix season 2 Tour De France pretty much confirms that Wout Van Aert made a business decision (Family and kid coming) not to chase for the sprint win by slowing down and not crashing into the barriers. And it wasn't only for the Jasper "Haters" that called for his regulation even Jakob called for it as well. Karma in this Tour in 3, 2, beep...

ichobi
Posts: 1915
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

From the tdf unchained ss2 i wonder if the drama is amped up or tamed down with the fact that there are cameras following them. That is do they self censor or do some intentionally being overdramatic (like Christian Honor in D2S - you can tell he likes being in front of camera and dramatize shit for the fun of it, being combative etc).

eins4eins
Posts: 813
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:49 am

by eins4eins

Karvalo wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:50 pm
eins4eins wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:00 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 4:53 pm
So the problem is that he has both won too much and yet not enough?

This is sounding a bit Chinese whispers...
If acting stupid is your style of discussing different opinions i'm out of this.
In case you've forgotten, this was your claim: pidcock might be getting too expensive for Ineos because his contract includes significant salary increases for wins. If he's not winning as much as they wanted him to, how is his contract becoming too expensive due to increases for winning? If you think that sounds stupid, it's really on you.
Winning a tour stage and strade bumped up his already very high salary even more, making him really expensive. Hows that difficult to understand?

Karvalo
Posts: 3604
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

eins4eins wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:46 am
Winning a tour stage and strade bumped up his already very high salary even more, making him really expensive. Hows that difficult to understand?
Then how is the problem that he's not winning enough?

If you design a contract for a rider that bumps up with race wins and that rider underperforms are you going to be paying him A) as much as you were prepared to pay or B) less than you hoped to be paying?

Lina
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

MichaelK wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2024 1:24 pm
BenSiskri wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2024 12:32 pm
stevec1975 wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2024 1:38 pm
Is there any race where Roglic does not crash? (He did it again today in the Dauphine) - he is a liability!

He's the proof that there's more to being a good cyclist than just w/kg, VO2, watts, etc..........If you can't consistently stay on your bike, you're not a good cyclist.
Are you kidding me?! Say that to his face and tell him he's not a good cyclist with 4 GT wins, 5 Classics and 1 Monument. I suppose we could say the same thing about G right? Hell even JV had a couple of spills in '22 TdF.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. G is another prime example of a pro rider who is prone to falls. Every cyclist that races has spills every now and then. When they're constant like with Roglic and G the problem is in the rider. Sure, Jonas has had a couple falls. But it's not in every single race he starts. It feels like the odds of Roglic crashing on a week long stage race are like 50/50.

basilic
Posts: 1056
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:05 am
Location: Geneva, Switzerland

by basilic

Lina wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:10 am
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
I think he's pointing out the hubris of a random ww poster telling an elite racer he's "not a good cyclist" because he falls more than average (and the implied idea that he, the random ww poster, is a good cyclist because he falls less often)

by Weenie


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spokenwords
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by spokenwords

bora/red bull is sweeping up a lot of talent. Tratnik and the Van Dyke's from Visma and Pellizzari from...whoever he rides for right now. Everybody wanted Pellizzari after the Giro and they had it sealed up real quick. That Red Bull money has really changed the landscape. Pidcock still being thrown around as their next big signing. I would assume they go after both WVA and Tommy Boy and see which one happens first.
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