The forum pre social media

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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tarmackev
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:59 pm

by tarmackev

I was a lurker in the mid 2000's, dreaming of a light bike one day.
I've just been reading through old threads from 05 and wow! The forum was a different place, everyone was very respectful and it felt like community. It feels so positive reading back then.
I do think Strava and instagram have brought a new type of person in. Cycling used to for outsiders and you got zero lifstyle points for riding a bike. Now people want the cool pics and the kudos on strava.

I'm not saying it's bad, just for me as a 47 year old life long cyclist how nice it is to look back to a far simpler time. Again just my opinion and how it seems to me. There feels to be an air of pressure being a cyclist these days, youre either in or out. If you don't ride fast and have the gear you'll get dropped on a club run. Even riding with friends somebody always has something to prove.

The Lance era was a golden time on forums. I need to search out the posts where 99% defended him and 1% said he was a cheat. I bet they're inetersting to look back on.

(I was reading posts from 2002SaecoReplica ,It was his old posts the led me down the wormhole)

EdWiser
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:50 pm

by EdWiser

This is true of any hobby. I remember group rides in the 80’s when we rode outdoor to enjoy the outdoors. Now everyone one is trying to act like they race bikes. They spend their time worrying about their FTP. People now days lead group rides and don’t worry about the new riders. It the past as a group leader I rode with new riders making sure they get back to the start. Now they just ride away.

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erik$
Posts: 154
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:26 pm
Location: Veneto, Italy

by erik$

Interesting post and hard to not agree about the difference between now and before. A few months back I read through the old posts from Simon Zahner in the cx part of the forum. It was a great read surrounding is rise through the wc field and lots of fun reflections about equipment choice - Lightweights for cross, among other things.

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C36
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Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

I do regularly read old posts, the ones I started reading with a basic scholar english around 2003-2004 entering in Engineering schoool. I don't really recall names but I loved the experiment, another type of attention to detail that did often cross the "that was not really a good idea". the shame is that many pictures got lost over time.
From my end, the big difference social media brought is the dillution of real knowledge burried under the same information repeated over and over again on all platforms, before you had some more digging to do but had less "noise" from the Youtube and multiple web medias. Still think WW is probably the best place to have people with attention to detail (over pure WW).
tarmackev wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 7:10 pm
The Lance era was a golden time on forums. I need to search out the posts where 99% defended him and 1% said he was a cheat. I bet they're inetersting to look back on.
Being part of those 1%, I cant't say I have any good memory of this period and sadly got very happy when he blew.

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MDecius
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:50 pm

by MDecius

C36 wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 8:20 pm
From my end, the big difference social media brought is the dillution of real knowledge burried under the same information repeated over and over again on all platforms, before you had some more digging to do but had less "noise" from the Youtube and multiple web medias.
I have seen this phenomenon in multiple areas that I actually know a bit about, but because cycling is a recent hobby of mine I have not been on this forum long enough to see any particular change.

In academia, this subject is often spoken of, because it's manifested itself as a flood of incremental/non-insightful/poor quality papers sent hastily out for peer review. There is a lot of speculation about the cause of this phenomenon, and no one has a solid answer, but the impact is the same -- the signal to noise ratio is far far lower than it used to be.

Polarization in that field is also increasing incredibly quickly. There are cliques of researchers each with their own "agendas" and "narratives".

From a purely practical perspective, I find it very interesting if this can be traced back to a trend in human psychology that's been activated by how much social media algorithms have influenced our thinking and brought out the "race to the bottom of the brain stem".
Road - Time Alpe d'Huez 01 rim
All-road - Diverge Elite DSW '16 disc

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Juanmoretime
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Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:08 am

by Juanmoretime

It seems like these days everyone wants to really push their opinion and their opinion is not an option, it's the only way.

I personally don't follow pro racing or care what the pro's do. I just love riding my bikes.

Opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one.

This grumpy old man is crawling back into his hole. After I go on a training ride of course.

I can add while I frequent several forums I don't Facebook, Twitter or any other social media. Anyone that I want to know about me or I want to know about I interact with either in person or via, email, phone or text.

idickers
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon May 01, 2023 5:52 pm

by idickers

Interesting thoughts. As a long-time cyclist (I started racing in the '70's with toe-clips and straps), I have seen a lot of changes in both equipment and social interactions. The equipment I have grudginly embraced. But the social aspects are concerning. I see two disturbing trends:
1) The massive emphasis on being the best or most extreme. A very small percentage of the population can actually vie for being the best in anything, and the rest of the general population seems to have forgotten how to enjoy life without being the best, leading to either quitting the activity or continued frustration, which often leads to cheating the system.

2) The rise of social media, and the fact that people only post their highlights, leaving observers to wonder why their own life isn't as good as the posters. I think this leads to unrealistic expectations, which leads to more frustration.The combination of the two can make for a very toxic uber-competitive environment.

In the end, my answer is to go for a ride and enjoy the process. And occasionally leave the bike computer at home :)

warthog101
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

Juanmoretime wrote:
Fri May 05, 2023 12:48 pm
I can add while I frequent several forums I don't Facebook, Twitter or any other social media. Anyone that I want to know about me or I want to know about I interact with either in person or via, email, phone or text.
I have been on here a while but haven't posted that much. Have always found it a fairly argumentative place tbh.
Perhaps years back it was less so? :noidea:

Ditto on the social media. Cbfed with it.
We appear a minority though.

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tarmackev
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:59 pm

by tarmackev

Wow, being the OP ive just come back to read what people said, I was thoroughly expecting to get put in my place and told how misserable I was.

It's nice to see others feel similar.

I'm sure the geration before me felt that way about me with Cateye computer, Z-Team jersey and SPD pedals.

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tarmackev
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:59 pm

by tarmackev

idickers wrote:
Thu May 11, 2023 12:05 pm
Interesting thoughts. As a long-time cyclist (I started racing in the '70's with toe-clips and straps), I have seen a lot of changes in both equipment and social interactions. The equipment I have grudginly embraced. But the social aspects are concerning. I see two disturbing trends:
1) The massive emphasis on being the best or most extreme. A very small percentage of the population can actually vie for being the best in anything, and the rest of the general population seems to have forgotten how to enjoy life without being the best, leading to either quitting the activity or continued frustration, which often leads to cheating the system.

2) The rise of social media, and the fact that people only post their highlights, leaving observers to wonder why their own life isn't as good as the posters. I think this leads to unrealistic expectations, which leads to more frustration.The combination of the two can make for a very toxic uber-competitive environment.

In the end, my answer is to go for a ride and enjoy the process. And occasionally leave the bike computer at home :)
Very wise words.

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tarmackev
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:59 pm

by tarmackev

C36 wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 8:20 pm
I do regularly read old posts, the ones I started reading with a basic scholar english around 2003-2004 entering in Engineering schoool. I don't really recall names but I loved the experiment, another type of attention to detail that did often cross the "that was not really a good idea". the shame is that many pictures got lost over time.
From my end, the big difference social media brought is the dillution of real knowledge burried under the same information repeated over and over again on all platforms, before you had some more digging to do but had less "noise" from the Youtube and multiple web medias. Still think WW is probably the best place to have people with attention to detail (over pure WW).
tarmackev wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 7:10 pm
The Lance era was a golden time on forums. I need to search out the posts where 99% defended him and 1% said he was a cheat. I bet they're inetersting to look back on.
Being part of those 1%, I cant't say I have any good memory of this period and sadly got very happy when he blew.
I was that 1% as well, well after listening to Walsh in 03-ish I was. Club mates would have non of it.

idickers
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon May 01, 2023 5:52 pm

by idickers

tarmackev wrote:
Thu May 11, 2023 3:44 pm
I'm sure the geration before me felt that way about me with Cateye computer, Z-Team jersey and SPD pedals.
I love my Z-Team Jersey! Nobody knows the climb back it represented for Greg, but it's inspriing everytime I look at it. Even if I can't fit into it anymore!

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de zwarten
Posts: 896
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:32 pm
Location: belgium

by de zwarten

tarmackev wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 7:10 pm
I was a lurker in the mid 2000's, dreaming of a light bike one day.
I've just been reading through old threads from 05 and wow! The forum was a different place, everyone was very respectful and it felt like community. It feels so positive reading back then.
My take is that, back in the days, there was not a lot of knowledge and experience that was widely shared, so people were genuinely interested to learn something as the internet forums, with media (like simple pictures) only really took off in the early 00s. So everything was new and exciting.

Nowadays, people have so many sources of information, that on all forums, everybody seems to know best. There isn't a lot of room for discussion or home-made parts anymore, and this has in part to do with scientific progress (the whole aero movement that gradually took over the core of WW), and the push for integration in modern bikes, that saps most of the creativity out of modern bike building as most people buy fully build bikes in a configuration that doesn't invite much upgrading / tweaking.

One could argue that the whole bike industry and community has matured / developed into a scientific (training, aero tweaking) and corporative (expensive integrated bikes requiring professional, certified mechanics) thing in which the role of forums like this one is less relevant, whereas in the early 00s we had creative, often naive expressions on how to tweak parts in artisanal and often very unique builds that weren't necessarily expensive, and in which e.g. parts of different groupsets were mixed. One could argue that people had to be inventive in those days because home-made parts were often lighter and sometimes just better overall, compared to factory parts, while nowadays nobody would even dare to mismatch any part in a groupset on a 7-10K bike.

So in the end, my take is people are more friendly as long as they are eager to learn and to be open-minded towards new ideas, and in the early 00s there was a much bigger demand for sharing knowledge and experiences than there is now.

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tymon_tm
Posts: 3665
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:35 pm

by tymon_tm

that's pretty much the essence of change we witness. we're constantly exposed to information which makes us think we know. very often we think we know best. that's why sharing knowledge and experience has been pushed to the curb by sharing opinions. in that sort of discussions any connection points to actual facts or logic are being lost in a mush of *methinking*. it made me give up on one,.once upon a time helluva cool and friendly skiing forum, where i had been a member since the very beginning, becuase there is just nothing left but countless posts, each of them sounding like it had been written by a bot.

my love and appreciation for WW is far to strong, and the crowd here is indeed one of a kind, despite popularity and growth. i'd only wish the tone was set by people who have knowledge, like in the "olden days". i really do miss old members, and some of the newer ones, like Calnago. but i also know attention seekers, who often seem to have hijacked this place, if only for a given thread, burn out sooner or later. and simply leave. i just hope the *spirit* of WW prevails, and ill be able and willing to come back here every now and then, cause whatever's going on in bike biz and tech, whatever state pro racing is in, it's just this one of a kind place on the whole Internet, where you can feel at home.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

by Weenie


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Juanmoretime
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Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:08 am

by Juanmoretime

[quote=tymon_tm post_id=1804580 time=1683924653 user_id=5101]
that's pretty much the essence of change we witness. we're constantly exposed to information which makes us think we know. very often we think we know best. that's why sharing knowledge and experience has been pushed to the curb by sharing opinions. in that sort of discussions any connection points to actual facts or logic are being lost in a mush of *methinking*. it made me give up on one,.once upon a time helluva cool and friendly skiing forum, where i had been a member since the very beginning, becuase there is just nothing left but countless posts, each of them sounding like it had been written by a bot.

my love and appreciation for WW is far to strong, and the crowd here is indeed one of a kind, despite popularity and growth. i'd only wish the tone was set by people who have knowledge, like in the "olden days". i really do miss old members, and some of the newer ones, like Calnago. but i also know attention seekers, who often seem to have hijacked this place, if only for a given thread, burn out sooner or later. and simply leave. i just hope the *spirit* of WW prevails, and ill be able and willing to come back here every now and then, cause whatever's going on in bike biz and tech, whatever state pro racing is in, it's just this one of a kind place on the whole Internet, where you can feel at home.
[/quote]

Well said! If. I had a big thumb it would be up.

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