Weight Weenies

Posted: **Sat Jan 28, 2023 5:57 am**

Well said Mr Gib.

Posted: **Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:52 am**

What incident started this thread? I looked at CN and came up empty

Posted: **Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:52 am**

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Posted: **Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:56 am**

I think it started with Lefevre criticising Alaphilippe directly to media; you do understand that being Lefevre he doesn't only criticise, but goes down hard on the trash talking.
Alaphilippe said he wasn't happy and the saga started.

Normally when Lefevre does this is because his budget is tight and he needs to find excuses not to hold on certain riders for pay others.

Posted: **Sat Jan 28, 2023 9:05 am**

He's an a-hole! I've cringed at some of the things he's said over the years. Calling riders weak minded or whatever BS. The fact is that the majority of cycling fans in Belgium are older, white males and they obviously don't care about Lefevre's behavior. Lefevre is popular enough to have his own newspaper column where he can trash talk his riders in public.

Posted: **Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:23 pm**

warthog101 wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 28, 2023 5:57 am
Well said Mr Gib.

To be fair, all that I did was spit out a crude summary of the last 50 years of research into leadership and organizational effectiveness. These basics should be (and often are), common knowledge to anyone in a position of leadership. Sadly there are a few notable exceptions in cycling. Professional cycling certainly has an "old school" element to it that is admired by some. Getting better all the time though.

Posted: **Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:47 pm**

tarmackev wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:57 pm

He's a great cycling mind but he definitely doesnt fit in with the woke culture. In other parts of the world he's all good.

I think he's viewed as an abrasive, tactless a-hole pretty much everywhere ...

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:49 pm**

Lefevere says a lot of stuff. A lot of with I don't necessarily agree. But I do kind of understand him calling out his high paid star riders for not meeting expectations. If you're being paid millions to do something and don't perform to the expected level then criticism is quite understandable. That said he could definitely be better in how he gives that criticism, but that is definitely not his style.

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:13 pm**

I disagree. His comments shouldn't be public discussion. You can't expect someone like JA, MVDP, Sagan, Remco or any top rider to always be a top rider and world champion every year. Lefevre certainly subscribes to the 'what have you done for me lately' point of view.

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:32 pm**

Lina wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:49 pm
Lefevere says a lot of stuff. A lot of with I don't necessarily agree. But I do kind of understand him calling out his high paid star riders for not meeting expectations. If you're being paid millions to do something and don't perform to the expected level then criticism is quite understandable. That said he could definitely be better in how he gives that criticism, but that is definitely not his style.

This is the dumbest logic I've ever heard. Let's just cut everyone that's not winning, then we'll have a race with one effing guy in it, by himself.

Good grief. Like, do you or P L even understand HOW SPORTS WORK? 99.999999999% of people aren't going to win!

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:39 pm**

From people management standpoint it’s absolutely lv. 0.
Now he may have a Public-Relation objective that remains unclear to me or pursue a longer term objective: create a toxic atmosphere to force a rider to break his contract over him terminating it and paying fees for example.
What is clear is that in a normal, large, company anyone behaving publicly like this would receive an HR call.

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:20 pm**

spartacus wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:32 pm

Lina wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:49 pm
Lefevere says a lot of stuff. A lot of with I don't necessarily agree. But I do kind of understand him calling out his high paid star riders for not meeting expectations. If you're being paid millions to do something and don't perform to the expected level then criticism is quite understandable. That said he could definitely be better in how he gives that criticism, but that is definitely not his style.
This is the dumbest logic I've ever heard. Let's just cut everyone that's not winning, then we'll have a race with one effing guy in it, by himself.

Good grief. Like, do you or P L even understand HOW SPORTS WORK? 99.999999999% of people aren't going to win!

AJS914 wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:13 pm
I disagree. His comments shouldn't be public discussion. You can't expect someone like JA, MVDP, Sagan, Remco or any top rider to always be a top rider and world champion every year. Lefevre certainly subscribes to the 'what have you done for me lately' point of view.

At what point did I or Lefevere suggest that? That's right, never. And Lefevere has proven that he values guys that aren't winning very much. He has a history of paying his domestiques and not blaming them for not winning. Often his leadout trains are so good that you could plug any sprinter behind them and they'd win. Which is what he has been doing for years, take a cheap up and coming sprinter, stick them behind the proven leadout, and have them win until they demand a big contract, repeat with a new young talent.

If you're getting paid millions per year in any field you're expected to produce results. In sports that means winning. Sure in sports, especially ones like cycling no one expects you to win every single race even if you're paid big money. And even if you have a few months or even a year off you're still being talked about and do bring some value to the sponsors. If you're not performing you're not doing what you were signed up to do. Look at any salary capped team sport and you'll see fans and owners being extremely disappointed if highly paid athletes aren't performing up to the expected level. The owners rarely make their opinions publicly known by saying what they think to the presses but they make it obvious by getting rid of the players. And in the case of some owners you can even see them publicly lament the performance of their highly paid stars, see Jerry Jones and Dak Prescott for an example. Though I'm not sure Jerry Jones is what you want to use as an example of sports team leadership.

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:40 pm**

Lina wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:20 pm

spartacus wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:32 pm

Lina wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:49 pm
Lefevere says a lot of stuff. A lot of with I don't necessarily agree. But I do kind of understand him calling out his high paid star riders for not meeting expectations. If you're being paid millions to do something and don't perform to the expected level then criticism is quite understandable. That said he could definitely be better in how he gives that criticism, but that is definitely not his style.
This is the dumbest logic I've ever heard. Let's just cut everyone that's not winning, then we'll have a race with one effing guy in it, by himself.

Good grief. Like, do you or P L even understand HOW SPORTS WORK? 99.999999999% of people aren't going to win!

AJS914 wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:13 pm
I disagree. His comments shouldn't be public discussion. You can't expect someone like JA, MVDP, Sagan, Remco or any top rider to always be a top rider and world champion every year. Lefevre certainly subscribes to the 'what have you done for me lately' point of view.
At what point did I or Lefevere suggest that? That's right, never. And Lefevere has proven that he values guys that aren't winning very much. He has a history of paying his domestiques and not blaming them for not winning. Often his leadout trains are so good that you could plug any sprinter behind them and they'd win. Which is what he has been doing for years, take a cheap up and coming sprinter, stick them behind the proven leadout, and have them win until they demand a big contract, repeat with a new young talent.

If you're getting paid millions per year in any field you're expected to produce results. In sports that means winning. Sure in sports, especially ones like cycling no one expects you to win every single race even if you're paid big money. And even if you have a few months or even a year off you're still being talked about and do bring some value to the sponsors. If you're not performing you're not doing what you were signed up to do. Look at any salary capped team sport and you'll see fans and owners being extremely disappointed if highly paid athletes aren't performing up to the expected level. The owners rarely make their opinions publicly known by saying what they think to the presses but they make it obvious by getting rid of the players. And in the case of some owners you can even see them publicly lament the performance of their highly paid stars, see Jerry Jones and Dak Prescott for an example. Though I'm not sure Jerry Jones is what you want to use as an example of sports team leadership.

I see your point, it's just that it (his behaviour) seems... unreasonable.

Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:16 am**

Lina, Lefevre has suggested those types of things over and over, rider after rider. I'll just pull out two choice headlines:

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/patric ... tic-abuse/

"'He’s the pinnacle of mental weakness' claims team boss"

https://www.eurosport.com/cycling/patri ... tory.shtml

"I understand his illnesses and falls, but you can't keep hiding behind that," Lefevere said.

Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:27 am**

AJS914 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:16 am
Lina, Lefevre has suggested those types of things over and over, rider after rider. I'll just pull out two choice headlines:

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/patric ... tic-abuse/

"'He’s the pinnacle of mental weakness' claims team boss"

https://www.eurosport.com/cycling/patri ... tory.shtml

"I understand his illnesses and falls, but you can't keep hiding behind that," Lefevere said.

And it's always his star riders he's complaining about. The riders that he has hired to win bike races. Show me one article where he's complaining about a domestique not winning.

Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:27 am**

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Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:04 am**

Most of the (Ex-) Stars actually love PL.
Ask Tom Boonen, Cav, Remco, Bettini, Musseeuw, Tafi, Keisse, Gilbert, Terpstra, ...
Even VDB loved Patlev.
He might not be so bad when there arent journalists around

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