Re: What's the deal with Patrick Lefevere?
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 5:57 am
Well said Mr Gib.
Forum
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=171926
To be fair, all that I did was spit out a crude summary of the last 50 years of research into leadership and organizational effectiveness. These basics should be (and often are), common knowledge to anyone in a position of leadership. Sadly there are a few notable exceptions in cycling. Professional cycling certainly has an "old school" element to it that is admired by some. Getting better all the time though.
This is the dumbest logic I've ever heard. Let's just cut everyone that's not winning, then we'll have a race with one effing guy in it, by himself.Lina wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:49 pmLefevere says a lot of stuff. A lot of with I don't necessarily agree. But I do kind of understand him calling out his high paid star riders for not meeting expectations. If you're being paid millions to do something and don't perform to the expected level then criticism is quite understandable. That said he could definitely be better in how he gives that criticism, but that is definitely not his style.
spartacus wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:32 pmThis is the dumbest logic I've ever heard. Let's just cut everyone that's not winning, then we'll have a race with one effing guy in it, by himself.Lina wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:49 pmLefevere says a lot of stuff. A lot of with I don't necessarily agree. But I do kind of understand him calling out his high paid star riders for not meeting expectations. If you're being paid millions to do something and don't perform to the expected level then criticism is quite understandable. That said he could definitely be better in how he gives that criticism, but that is definitely not his style.
Good grief. Like, do you or P L even understand HOW SPORTS WORK? 99.999999999% of people aren't going to win!
At what point did I or Lefevere suggest that? That's right, never. And Lefevere has proven that he values guys that aren't winning very much. He has a history of paying his domestiques and not blaming them for not winning. Often his leadout trains are so good that you could plug any sprinter behind them and they'd win. Which is what he has been doing for years, take a cheap up and coming sprinter, stick them behind the proven leadout, and have them win until they demand a big contract, repeat with a new young talent.AJS914 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:13 pmI disagree. His comments shouldn't be public discussion. You can't expect someone like JA, MVDP, Sagan, Remco or any top rider to always be a top rider and world champion every year. Lefevre certainly subscribes to the 'what have you done for me lately' point of view.
I see your point, it's just that it (his behaviour) seems... unreasonable.Lina wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:20 pmspartacus wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:32 pmThis is the dumbest logic I've ever heard. Let's just cut everyone that's not winning, then we'll have a race with one effing guy in it, by himself.Lina wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 4:49 pmLefevere says a lot of stuff. A lot of with I don't necessarily agree. But I do kind of understand him calling out his high paid star riders for not meeting expectations. If you're being paid millions to do something and don't perform to the expected level then criticism is quite understandable. That said he could definitely be better in how he gives that criticism, but that is definitely not his style.
Good grief. Like, do you or P L even understand HOW SPORTS WORK? 99.999999999% of people aren't going to win!At what point did I or Lefevere suggest that? That's right, never. And Lefevere has proven that he values guys that aren't winning very much. He has a history of paying his domestiques and not blaming them for not winning. Often his leadout trains are so good that you could plug any sprinter behind them and they'd win. Which is what he has been doing for years, take a cheap up and coming sprinter, stick them behind the proven leadout, and have them win until they demand a big contract, repeat with a new young talent.AJS914 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:13 pmI disagree. His comments shouldn't be public discussion. You can't expect someone like JA, MVDP, Sagan, Remco or any top rider to always be a top rider and world champion every year. Lefevre certainly subscribes to the 'what have you done for me lately' point of view.
If you're getting paid millions per year in any field you're expected to produce results. In sports that means winning. Sure in sports, especially ones like cycling no one expects you to win every single race even if you're paid big money. And even if you have a few months or even a year off you're still being talked about and do bring some value to the sponsors. If you're not performing you're not doing what you were signed up to do. Look at any salary capped team sport and you'll see fans and owners being extremely disappointed if highly paid athletes aren't performing up to the expected level. The owners rarely make their opinions publicly known by saying what they think to the presses but they make it obvious by getting rid of the players. And in the case of some owners you can even see them publicly lament the performance of their highly paid stars, see Jerry Jones and Dak Prescott for an example. Though I'm not sure Jerry Jones is what you want to use as an example of sports team leadership.
And it's always his star riders he's complaining about. The riders that he has hired to win bike races. Show me one article where he's complaining about a domestique not winning.AJS914 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:16 amLina, Lefevre has suggested those types of things over and over, rider after rider. I'll just pull out two choice headlines:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/patric ... tic-abuse/
"'He’s the pinnacle of mental weakness' claims team boss"
https://www.eurosport.com/cycling/patri ... tory.shtml
"I understand his illnesses and falls, but you can't keep hiding behind that," Lefevere said.