2023 Pro thread

[micky]

Arnaud De Lie is going to win a Monument before he turns 22, this kid is the real deal and his size, power and instincts are Impressive to say the least.

He trows watts around like there's no tomorrow.
Impressive ride yesterday.

[stoney]

Deserved win for Fem at CX Worlds yesterday. When not injured, she's been the best over the long season.

[UpFromOne]

WVA-MvdP rivalry just keeps on giving!

But VanAert hints his biggest road wins to come.

[jever98]

What's the head to head between Mathieu and Wout?

[Karvalo]

I think commentators said it was 119-60 in favour of MvdP at professional cross races going into this one.

[UpFromOne]

UCI lists WVA having 39 pro wins, 9 in TdF.
MVdP has 41 pro wins, but only 1 in TdF.

[Dan Gerous]

CX wins as of now: 120 for Mathieu, 60 for Wout, but that's only counting races when they were both on the startline. Overall, Mathieu has won 209 CX races, Wout 106, I think that includes U23 and Junior races.

Head to head CX stats.

On the road, they both have 40 pro wins (39 individual wins for Wout, but one TTT Tour stage, I'm not sure where the UCI gets Mathieu's 41st win... Road Worlds as a junior maybe?), but Wout has started racing seriously as a pro on the road 2 years earlier than Mathieu. In terms of quality, both have one Strade Bianche and one Amstel Gold, Wout has won a lot more Tour stages yes, and MSR once. Mathieu won 1 Tour stage and 1 Giro stage but De Ronde twice...

Head to head road stats.

IMO, having watched them race since they were juniors, when they're at the top of their game, Mathieu has always been the better crosser. On the road so far, I think Wout has the upper hand. He can win across a much wider type of road races: flat sprint days, classics, hilly races, mountain stages, time trials, and seems like he potentially might end his road career with more success than Mathieu, especially if Mathieu's back issues keep coming back... But Wout goes for anything, Mathieu seems to care mostly about classics and classics-like stages, and seems to have little interest for the rest. His TTs are quite good just out of power and natural talent, but he never trains on a TT bike and has done next to none outside of the Grand Tours, he could probably win TTs too if he wanted and prepared for it...

Oh and Mathieu won a few mountain bike World Cups...

I think Mathieu is the more gifted, natural raw talent of the two, but Wout is more disciplined and commited, or at least was so from a much younger age. Even very deep into his pro career, Mathieu didn't really had a coach, didn't listen to his dad, was eating junk food and going out late at night with friends on a regular basis, he seems to mostly do things for the fun factor.

[Mr.Gib]

@DanGerous thanks for the summary.

WVA’s comments after the World Championships about being unable to do anything to put pressure on MVP and that he was just hanging on at his limit, point again to MVP’s physical superiority. I must assume they were both at their best for the race.

As great as MVP has been in road races, I think he wastes too much energy. He is too often visible at the front. And he has too much faith in his ability to attack multiple times and still have his best sprint. Spectacularly entertaining to watch, but maybe not the best way to maximize number of wins. WVA plays it more “by the book”.

What’s next for these two? Showdown at Strada Bianche?

[robbosmans]

Yes Strada is the start of their road season

[Attermann]

Strade, it's in Italy

[robbosmans]

Jup sry just woke up

[UpFromOne]

Great analysis, Dan, thanks!

It almost sounds as though Wout wants TdF results really bad.
Maybe he fancies himself a GC contender?

[Mr.Gib]

It almost sounds as though Wout wants TdF results really bad.
Maybe he fancies himself a GC contender?

That would be surprising. Heaviest winner in the modern era was Indurain, and he was a few kg lighter than Van Aert when he won. Perhaps he could transform himself physically, but that is a big risk that seems out of character. Flanders, Roubaix, and World's would be the logical priorities. None of this matters of course if Arnaud De Lie continues his trajectory. He is like a giant version of Remco.

[wooger]

It almost sounds as though Wout wants TdF results really bad.
Maybe he fancies himself a GC contender?

That would be surprising. Heaviest winner in the modern era was Indurain, and he was a few kg lighter than Van Aert when he won. Perhaps he could transform himself physically, but that is a big risk that seems out of character. Flanders, Roubaix, and World's would be the logical priorities. None of this matters of course if Arnaud De Lie continues his trajectory. He is like a giant version of Remco.

If he's started focussing on GC / climbing and associated weight loss it would point to worse performance in cyclocross and the classics. We'll see.

I don't see the point in trying for GC when on a team with Rog and Ving.

[BdaGhisallo]

It almost sounds as though Wout wants TdF results really bad.
Maybe he fancies himself a GC contender?

That would be surprising. Heaviest winner in the modern era was Indurain, and he was a few kg lighter than Van Aert when he won. Perhaps he could transform himself physically, but that is a big risk that seems out of character. Flanders, Roubaix, and World's would be the logical priorities. None of this matters of course if Arnaud De Lie continues his trajectory. He is like a giant version of Remco.

If he's started focussing on GC / climbing and associated weight loss it would point to worse performance in cyclocross and the classics. We'll see.

I don't see the point in trying for GC when on a team with Rog and Ving.

The chat about WVA of late and the possibility of him transforming into a GC rider brings to my mind similar talk about Cancellara doing the same thing 10-12 years ago. The engine is there and, in theory, it could be done if WVA could shed enough weight while maintaining his engine's capacity, but at what cost.

As you say, the classics and the like are what he's paid to do well in and are the races that suit him. Why would he give up his contender status in that side of the sport for a tilt that has only a small chance of succeeding, even if he could fully transform himself. Only a TdF win would make that effort worthwhile. I don't think a 3rd or 4th place finish on GC would do it.