RIM BRAKE FRAMES = OBSOLETE!

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Lina
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

tymon_tm wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:34 pm
elSid wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:09 am
I can't support this with data, but I am confident that in 2019, there were more options for high end bikes built for rim brakes*.

There could be multiple reasons - unrelated to braking modality - behind the 2018 and 2019 Treks not sellling well.


*I'd be happy to be corrected: I am in the market for a new rim braked frameset. The (non-custom) higher end options I've found so far are ...limited and/or uninspiring.
when Trek introduced SLR, all brands were already pushing discs so hard, just a handful of pros were still on rim brakes. so it's only natural most customers were after what's on the TV screen, and LBS's were pushing that angle as well, simply cause it ment a) more profit selling more expensive bikes b) a great selling point for people on rim brakes, who wouldn't even think about a new ride

IMHO rim brake Madone SLR is the greatest bike ever, period. and yes, it does brake very well, in case someone wonders. I haven't noticed any downgrade from DA brakes, but then I use brakes so seldom, it's always the last bit i think of when putting a new bike together...
The brands were pushing the disc brakes hard because that was what people were buying. Disc brakes didn't overtake rim brakes because brands forced them down our throats. Discs overtook because people kept buying them when given the choice.

flying
Posts: 2861
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:16 am

by flying

Lina wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:21 am
Disc brakes didn't overtake rim brakes because brands forced them down our throats.
Discs overtook because people kept buying them when given the choice.
Yes but...
Given the herd mentality of many + the fear factor even the hardcore cyclist felt about
no longer being supported, no parts, yada yada yada

In any case options exists so we can all ride what we want. :thumbup:

by Weenie


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tymon_tm
Posts: 3665
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:35 pm

by tymon_tm

Lina wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:21 am
tymon_tm wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:34 pm
elSid wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:09 am
I can't support this with data, but I am confident that in 2019, there were more options for high end bikes built for rim brakes*.

There could be multiple reasons - unrelated to braking modality - behind the 2018 and 2019 Treks not sellling well.


*I'd be happy to be corrected: I am in the market for a new rim braked frameset. The (non-custom) higher end options I've found so far are ...limited and/or uninspiring.
when Trek introduced SLR, all brands were already pushing discs so hard, just a handful of pros were still on rim brakes. so it's only natural most customers were after what's on the TV screen, and LBS's were pushing that angle as well, simply cause it ment a) more profit selling more expensive bikes b) a great selling point for people on rim brakes, who wouldn't even think about a new ride

IMHO rim brake Madone SLR is the greatest bike ever, period. and yes, it does brake very well, in case someone wonders. I haven't noticed any downgrade from DA brakes, but then I use brakes so seldom, it's always the last bit i think of when putting a new bike together...
The brands were pushing the disc brakes hard because that was what people were buying. Disc brakes didn't overtake rim brakes because brands forced them down our throats. Discs overtook because people kept buying them when given the choice.
LOL you gotta be a model consumer - always going for the new stuff without as much as a wink. good for you mate, but there are lots of people who are tad more aware of both their actual needs and producers marketing strategies

discs are here, they've taken over, at least for now, but please dont try to make idiots out of ww members claiming it's what folks wanted in the first place.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

Lina
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

tymon_tm wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:51 pm
Lina wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:21 am
tymon_tm wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:34 pm
elSid wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:09 am
I can't support this with data, but I am confident that in 2019, there were more options for high end bikes built for rim brakes*.

There could be multiple reasons - unrelated to braking modality - behind the 2018 and 2019 Treks not sellling well.


*I'd be happy to be corrected: I am in the market for a new rim braked frameset. The (non-custom) higher end options I've found so far are ...limited and/or uninspiring.
when Trek introduced SLR, all brands were already pushing discs so hard, just a handful of pros were still on rim brakes. so it's only natural most customers were after what's on the TV screen, and LBS's were pushing that angle as well, simply cause it ment a) more profit selling more expensive bikes b) a great selling point for people on rim brakes, who wouldn't even think about a new ride

IMHO rim brake Madone SLR is the greatest bike ever, period. and yes, it does brake very well, in case someone wonders. I haven't noticed any downgrade from DA brakes, but then I use brakes so seldom, it's always the last bit i think of when putting a new bike together...
The brands were pushing the disc brakes hard because that was what people were buying. Disc brakes didn't overtake rim brakes because brands forced them down our throats. Discs overtook because people kept buying them when given the choice.
LOL you gotta be a model consumer - always going for the new stuff without as much as a wink. good for you mate, but there are lots of people who are tad more aware of both their actual needs and producers marketing strategies

discs are here, they've taken over, at least for now, but please dont try to make idiots out of ww members claiming it's what folks wanted in the first place.
But it's what folks wanted. WW is a super small niche of road cycling. If you look at sales and how rim brake bikes just stood on shop floors it's obvious to anyone that people just wanted disc brakes. Manufacturers didn't stop making rim brake frames because they wanted to push everyone to discs, they stopped making rim brake frames because no one was buying them. And if you desperately want one you can still get one of the ones that shops and manufacturers got stuck with, probably at a great price. They'll be glad to give out one at any cost because any money they get out of it is better than nothing.

I bet that there are some rim brake frames from the last generations of rim brake bikes that have been given/sold at deep discounts in greater quantities to sponsored teams than that the manufacturer has actually sold at a profit.

warthog101
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Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

Lina wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:27 pm

But it's what folks wanted. WW is a super small niche of road cycling. If you look at sales and how rim brake bikes just stood on shop floors it's obvious to anyone that people just wanted disc brakes. Manufacturers didn't stop making rim brake frames because they wanted to push everyone to discs, they stopped making rim brake frames because no one was buying them. And if you desperately want one you can still get one of the ones that shops and manufacturers got stuck with, probably at a great price. They'll be glad to give out one at any cost because any money they get out of it is better than nothing.

I bet that there are some rim brake frames from the last generations of rim brake bikes that have been given/sold at deep discounts in greater quantities to sponsored teams than that the manufacturer has actually sold at a profit.
I am not in the bicycle industry.
With regards to mid to high end bikes that is how I see it too though.
Every single new bike in the bunches here is disc. Almost nobody who is a bicycle enthusiast here is buying new rim braked bikes. That is just how it is.

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

when mfg offered both ( yes at one point alot did). that was your chance. The masses chose disc so rim brake lines dissappeared.
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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

"no one's buying rim", "nobody wants that", "people have chosen" - there's this saying in my language - "is it the dog waging the tail, or is the tail waging the dog?"

if you focus all the marketing efforts and switch most, in some cases all production volume towards new technology, it's no brainer sooner rather than later it takes over. hardly anyone buys rim brake bikes cause there aren't any to be bought in the first place.

if it was some groundbreaking tech that folks prayed for, answering some crucial need or deficit in *old tech*, the shift would've occured with tons of rim bikes lying around, unsold, unwanted. but that wasn't the case even for a minute; producers simply ceased to make and sell them, period. people may drink all the kool aid they desire, but that doesn't change the fact the *revolution* in road bikes is a briliiant business strategy, flawlessly executed, that arguably has brought the desired effects even swifter than anyone had predicted.

producers got so encouraged they're doing it wherever they can in other areas; take a look at gearing options - 53/39 is dead. why? because. 12 speed does what actually, make your bike more versatile? from where i stand (or rather ride) it only makes it heavier. and after 20+ years of riding I gotta change gearing, because some suit thinks i should.

look, it's fine you appreciate new tech, find it, I dunno, working. but argument here is - there was nothing wrong with *old* stuff and after just few years we woke up with bikes being twice as expensive, overcomplicated, and heavier than ever.

in case you might dismiss that second aspect, this is WW for grams sake. i recall people here used to be more aware, picky and prone to question stuff. if you could travel back a decade in time and write on this very board about todays bikes and their features, you'd sound like you had lost your mind.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

We can talk in circles all day. Nobody bought the rim-brake Madone SLR... literally no one, not even rim-brake aficionados...it was wasted R&D and wasted production capacity. Trek still has mountains of blank Madone SLR rim-brake frames. Hell they still have tons of both H1 and H2 2018 Emonda SLR rim-brake frames that they're selling them as 2023 models to those in the know.

Image

Go out and buy one.

And yes, the Madone SLR rim-brake frameset is also still available.

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tymon_tm
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Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:35 pm

by tymon_tm

yup, it's possible to order some leftovers - for approx. 25-30% more than disc brake equvalents. and there's no shiping date, nothing... yup, i checked with a fancy shmancy Trek Store. and no, i won't pay premium over premium to prove a point (and help Trek empty their inventory). besides - and you now that too don't you - i'd be stuck with very limited choice of wheels, mostly V-shaped. no RSLs or even new Shmano wheels for rim brakes anymore.

you can't really take these leftover offers and clam "but it's still possible to buy rim and yet nobody does". I mean - you can and you do, but that's not really a sound, nor a very logical argument, is it
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

All I'm asking is "if not you, then who?"

Singular
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:59 am

by Singular

If there was demand, someone would be making money off of it.

It is not a conspiracy, but sound business practice.

Disc brakes offer a few very relevant advantages to the customer/user (among them: they brake!) but almost larger advantages to manufacturers/brands (they sell bikes!).

...and for full disclosure - I have a rim brake frameset in painting right now for this and coming years of racing, and all my drop bar bikes are rim brake.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 6:14 am
Nobody bought the rim-brake Madone SLR... literally no one, not even rim-brake aficionados...it was wasted R&D and wasted production capacity.
Out with an Olympic triathelete today who was on one. So correction, at least one was sold. :D

This thread contains the usual odd interpretations of market economics, spiced up with retro-grouch sentiments. Even complaints about too many cogs and the switch to compact cranksets make an appearance. Classic stuff

Frustrating for some that rim is going/gone. Why not just ride them until they fail and then move on - that could be a very long time. Complaining ain't going to change a thing. I was on my rim yesterday, my disc today. No bitterness. Just a couple of nice bikes.

People were wondering what happen to Bely as in "Bely's Bike Barn" thread. Probably in seclusion, I think he might have taken the death of the rim brake pretty hard. :P
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

waltthizzney
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:35 pm

by waltthizzney

rim brakes are going nowhere, lots of Chinese brands will become larger, steel bikes, ect campy will be around forever making rim brakes. People are already sick of overcomplicated disc brake bikes, imagine how much worse it will be in 10 years

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Lelandjt
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by Lelandjt

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 6:14 am
We can talk in circles all day. Nobody bought the rim-brake Madone SLR... literally no one, not even rim-brake aficionados...it was wasted R&D and wasted production capacity. Trek still has mountains of blank Madone SLR rim-brake frames. Hell they still have tons of both H1 and H2 2018 Emonda SLR rim-brake frames that they're selling them as 2023 models to those in the know.

Image

Go out and buy one.

And yes, the Madone SLR rim-brake frameset is also still available.
One's not aero and the other's heavy. Everyone now wants aero and light. If someone can point me to a frameset that's as aero as my Transonic SL but lighter (no chainstay mounted brake, so no Foil or Winspace) I'll buy it.

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AndreLM
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by AndreLM

Lelandjt wrote: One's not aero and the other's heavy. Everyone now wants aero and light. If someone can point me to a frameset that's as aero as my Transonic SL but lighter (no chainstay mounted brake, so no Foil or Winspace) I'll buy it.
Not sure if it is lighter, but the Pinarello Dogma F with rim brakes should be more aero than the Transonic. It will probably require a special order though... Should be a fun (and expensive) project... A Darimo seatpost, eeBrakes, a THM Clavicula and some deep section tubular wheels could probably make it a VERY aero bike that is significantly lighter than anything with discs.

If you lived in Japan, you could get a Yonex Aeroflight. It is very light, and *looks* fast.

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