RIM BRAKE FRAMES = OBSOLETE!

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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Lelandjt
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by Lelandjt

AndreLM wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:08 pm
Lelandjt wrote: One's not aero and the other's heavy. Everyone now wants aero and light. If someone can point me to a frameset that's as aero as my Transonic SL but lighter (no chainstay mounted brake, so no Foil or Winspace) I'll buy it.
Not sure if it is lighter, but the Pinarello Dogma F with rim brakes should be more aero than the Transonic. It will probably require a special order though... Should be a fun (and expensive) project... A Darimo seatpost, eeBrakes, a THM Clavicula and some deep section tubular wheels could probably make it a VERY aero bike that is significantly lighter than anything with discs.

If you lived in Japan, you could get a Yonex Aeroflight. It is very light, and *looks* fast.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
In 2016 when I got my Transonic SL it was lighter and more aero than the current Dogma and similar looking. I considered it the poor man's or underground Pinarrello. I'll look into whether the last gen rim Dogma is an improvement. My bike with the newest gen Hyper 45 wheels is 6.5kg and my only complaint is the seatpost puts the saddle a bit farther back than I like and I haven't found a solution to that.

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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Lelandjt wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:55 pm

One's not aero and the other's heavy. Everyone now wants aero and light. If someone can point me to a frameset that's as aero as my Transonic SL but lighter (no chainstay mounted brake, so no Foil or Winspace) I'll buy it.

Then again an H1 Emonda lets you get a lower position and will probably be quite aero in the real world.

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Lelandjt
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by Lelandjt

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2023 1:44 am
Lelandjt wrote:
Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:55 pm

One's not aero and the other's heavy. Everyone now wants aero and light. If someone can point me to a frameset that's as aero as my Transonic SL but lighter (no chainstay mounted brake, so no Foil or Winspace) I'll buy it.

Then again an H1 Emonda lets you get a lower position and will probably be quite aero in the real world.
Neg rise stem with SlamThatStem thin headset cover. Already about 11" saddle to bar drop. Don't think I want to go any lower.

Singular
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by Singular

Eleven inches?

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Lelandjt
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by Lelandjt

Singular wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:05 pm
Eleven inches?
I'm 6'2" with long legs and arms, but yeah, not sure I've ever seen a bike with more saddle/bar drop than I run.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

Mr.Gib wrote:
Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:31 pm

Out with an Olympic triathelete today who was on one. So correction, at least one was sold. :D

This thread contains the usual odd interpretations of market economics, spiced up with retro-grouch sentiments. Even complaints about too many cogs and the switch to compact cranksets make an appearance. Classic stuff

Frustrating for some that rim is going/gone. Why not just ride them until they fail and then move on - that could be a very long time. Complaining ain't going to change a thing. I was on my rim yesterday, my disc today. No bitterness. Just a couple of nice bikes.

People were wondering what happen to Bely as in "Bely's Bike Barn" thread. Probably in seclusion, I think he might have taken the death of the rim brake pretty hard. :P
this thread also contains the usual "sh*t the hell up it's progress" type of millenial attidude, and almost complete lack of understanding how business strategies work forcing upon customers a perpetual replacement of products with it's new versions.

and also twisting one's words - where the hell have i said i've something against compact cranks? It's taking away the "golden standard" - the 53/39 - that i'm not fine with.

sometimes it feels like WW has transformed into some kind of influncers' board where members can't help but to outdistance each other in praising new tech and gloryfying anything that hits the shop shelves. It's just sad and I really feel for people whose perception in regard to goods is so one-dimensional
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

Singular
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by Singular

Lelandjt wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:15 am
Singular wrote:
Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:05 pm
Eleven inches?
I'm 6'2" with long legs and arms, but yeah, not sure I've ever seen a bike with more saddle/bar drop than I run.
That's somewhere between amazing and insane. Let us see you in the drops! :D

BikeTyson
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by BikeTyson

tymon_tm wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:02 pm

this thread also contains the usual "sh*t the hell up it's progress" type of millenial attidude, and almost complete lack of understanding how business strategies work forcing upon customers a perpetual replacement of products with it's new versions.

and also twisting one's words - where the hell have i said i've something against compact cranks? It's taking away the "golden standard" - the 53/39 - that i'm not fine with.

sometimes it feels like WW has transformed into some kind of influncers' board where members can't help but to outdistance each other in praising new tech and gloryfying anything that hits the shop shelves. It's just sad and I really feel for people whose perception in regard to goods is so one-dimensional
Well in fairness, we're getting all the "get off my lawn," "back in my day" Boomer attitude from you to equal everything out. You can argue that discs were forced on the consumer but I'd personally never buy another rim brake bike ever again. I'm good without VHS and cassette tapes as well. You talk about perpetual replacement; how does a braking option that eats into the rim and forcing replacement of the entire wheel make more sense than having to replace a $30 disc rotor? Or brakng so hard on big descents that you literally pop a tube since you probably have similar ideas around tubeless setups. And since you mention cranksets, your post history tells me you'd be the one calling people "snowflakes" for running 50/34t. Thanks grandpa but I like my knees and don't want mash 50RPM up this climb all day. Discs are here. You can find rim brake bikes if you really want them. The only thing the constant bashing of disc brakes does is make you sound like somebody afraid or distrustful of change.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

I don’t know if any people posting here are millennials or not, nor does it matter.

jasjas
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by jasjas

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:56 pm
All a rim-brake bike needs to do is sell in enough quantity to justify its continued existence. It doesn’t need to keep pace with the disc-brake version of the bike…that would of course be impossible.

I bet Trek sold fewer than 1000 rim-brake Madones worldwide between 2018-2019.
Very few people will put money on what every LBS in the world tells you is old/discontinued tech/no parts... wont matter whether it is better or not, people buy into what they are told is "better/latest/get bits for/best resale"

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

jasjas wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:22 pm

Very few people will put money on what every LBS in the world tells you is old/discontinued tech/no parts... wont matter whether it is better or not, people buy into what they are told is "better/latest/get bits for/best resale"

Pretend it's 2017-2018:

Very few people will put money on what the media and pro peloton are calling spinning blades of death with multiple competing thru-axle standards, post-mount vs flat-mount, SCS, the faff of bleeding brakes, rub, warping/melting IceTech, etc. High-end bike shops are still actively steering people away from road disc and road tubeless.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:34 pm
jasjas wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:22 pm

Very few people will put money on what every LBS in the world tells you is old/discontinued tech/no parts... wont matter whether it is better or not, people buy into what they are told is "better/latest/get bits for/best resale"

Pretend it's 2017-2018:

Very few people will put money on what the media and pro peloton are calling spinning blades of death with multiple competing thru-axle standards, post-mount vs flat-mount, SCS, the faff of bleeding brakes, rub, warping/melting IceTech, etc. High-end bike shops are still actively steering people away from road disc and road tubeless.
Truly amazing how fast it all happened considering the shaky start. By 2020 discs were pretty much a done deal. That is crazy fast for a consumer base sitting on a market full of rim brake bikes.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

tymon_tm wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:02 pm
this thread also contains the usual "sh*t the hell up it's progress" type of millenial attidude, and almost complete lack of understanding how business strategies work forcing upon customers a perpetual replacement of products with it's new versions.
I understand planned obsolescence, but the absence of a captive market forced to deal with a single or dominant supplier suggests that is unlikely. (Consider the tactics of Apple regarding the iPhone to see the concept in action.) The bike industry OTOH has adequate competition. Power is not concentrated enough to allow any single manufacturer to distort the market. Prices may be high due to the oligopoly of drive train makers, but that won't lead to a reduction of consumer choice.

Rather, the current form of high end bicycles today is the result of innovation and response to consumer demand. And it doesn't take much effort to identify the main technical driver - the enhanced opportunities with tires, rims, and the interface between the two that results when braking friction is moved from the rim edge to some other place on the bike. This is what consumers want, and further, they feel this change in tech is worth it is more than the money they pay to get it - or they wouldn't buy it. It is the most basic economic behaviour - the classic value equation that repeats itself in all areas of consumer life.

And even if one can successfully argue that the purchaser gets no practical advantage from the change to the new dominant technology, it remains that the purchaser will still experience the benefit of enhanced status from owning something that is considered the latest and greatest. This emotional element of ownership is a fully legit part of the value of the product to its owners. It's just how the majority of humans behave as consumers.

Don't blame the bike companies, they were required by their owners to make a profit, and disc brakes were a more certain path - so they took it. If you wan't to blame someone, blame all the consumers that bought disc brake road bikes when they first appeared on the market.
tymon_tm wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 1:02 pm
and also twisting one's words - where the hell have i said i've something against compact cranks? It's taking away the "golden standard" - the 53/39 - that i'm not fine with.
tymon_tm wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:51 pm
...take a look at gearing options - 53/39 is dead. why? because. 12 speed does what actually, make your bike more versatile? from where i stand (or rather ride) it only makes it heavier. and after 20+ years of riding I gotta change gearing, because some suit thinks i should.
Kinda sounds like the other side of the same coin. :noidea: Sincere apologies if you meant something else.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Mr.Gib wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:56 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:34 pm
jasjas wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:22 pm

Very few people will put money on what every LBS in the world tells you is old/discontinued tech/no parts... wont matter whether it is better or not, people buy into what they are told is "better/latest/get bits for/best resale"

Pretend it's 2017-2018:

Very few people will put money on what the media and pro peloton are calling spinning blades of death with multiple competing thru-axle standards, post-mount vs flat-mount, SCS, the faff of bleeding brakes, rub, warping/melting IceTech, etc. High-end bike shops are still actively steering people away from road disc and road tubeless.
Truly amazing how fast it all happened considering the shaky start. By 2020 discs were pretty much a done deal. That is crazy fast for a consumer base sitting on a market full of rim brake bikes.
What is more fun is that when you asked for a disc brake bike when Volagi was rather new, i would say 99% of all of you would take a piss at that one asking for disc brakes.
Admitting how much you are influenced isn't easy, but it's fact!
One way or another, almost everybody are totally influenced by media.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

jasjas wrote:
Sun Feb 19, 2023 10:22 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:56 pm
All a rim-brake bike needs to do is sell in enough quantity to justify its continued existence. It doesn’t need to keep pace with the disc-brake version of the bike…that would of course be impossible.

I bet Trek sold fewer than 1000 rim-brake Madones worldwide between 2018-2019.
Very few people will put money on what every LBS in the world tells you is old/discontinued tech/no parts... wont matter whether it is better or not, people buy into what they are told is "better/latest/get bits for/best resale"
that's basically it

something similar can be observed regarding cars - 10 years ago EU was pushing diesels like crazy. many countries would offer surcharges for anyone willing to swap his old car for a brand new one. today we're hearing diesel/petrol cars should be literally 'banned', and some cities actually go that way. ten years from now there won't be any passenger diesel/petrol car availible, and Tobins of this world are gonna claim "it's customers' fault"
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

by Weenie


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