Road bike + trailer + power metre

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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Conza
Posts: 231
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:28 am
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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by Conza

Hi team,

Newly minted dad. The BMC Team machine + Giant TCR haven't seen the road since she was born. Dusting off the cobwebs now. Looking to transition from walks in the Thule Glide 2.0 to the bike.

Goal:
* Safe road rides with the young one. Ideally her being comfortable, but also trailer being aero. Bring on group rides? :shock: :lol:

Scenario:
* The old Giant TCR has DA mechanical, Pioneer PM, light, rim brakes, and more of a climbing bike. But does have 52-36, 11-30.
* The BMC Team Machine has Ultegra di2, no PM, disk brakes, and is more of the dream bike - for group rides etc. 52-36, 11-30.

* Knowing myself - if I have to spend time manually connecting the trailer every time; it will hardly get used. The bike would likely stay attached to the trailer in the garage; and it becomes the 'adventures with daughter bike'.
* We already have the Thule Glide 2.0 for walks etc. so this trailer doesn't need to really do that - it can be bike only focused.
* I am looking at a PM for the BMC Team Machine. Since I am heavy on Garmin ecosystem and shimano spd-sl, the Rally 200 pedals are top of list. I would want the ride PM data.

Initial thoughts:
* I saw this from Rick Zabel on Cyclingtips -> https://www.instagram.com/p/Ce4AbINDQwn/. I asked him and he said it's a Cybex Zeno.
* I would need to get a thru-axle adaptor, if I was going to use it on the BMC Team machine. Idea being: disk brakes; better, safer stopping, and happier wife.
* I imagine thru axle is safer to a degree?
* Would get Garmin PM - Rally 200 for BMC. How would that work with trailer though - I change my weight by the trailer, and my daughter? haha. How would that effect things Power to weight; when I ride solo on other climbing bike? Data would be messy on strava, or should be like for like to an extent?

Request:
* Please shill me your recommendations.

Are there better trailers out there? What would you recommend?
It's all about the adventure :o .

Singular
Posts: 476
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:59 am

by Singular

No need really to adjust weight - it is the vehicle that changes, not the engine.

In general, opt for LOW gearing if there are hills present.

I don't know if there is a mount/adapter that can stay on the bike, but that's a pretty insignificant piece in order to use the bike as a "normal" one inbetween trailer sessions.

by Weenie


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Conza
Posts: 231
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:28 am
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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by Conza

Singular wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:22 pm
No need really to adjust weight - it is the vehicle that changes, not the engine.
For the bike stats on strava at least? Bike is Xkg (just add trailer and gal weight)?
Singular wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:22 pm
In general, opt for LOW gearing if there are hills present.
Good point. Very flat around here. I usually head for the hills. Not sure of how they'd go with trailer on descents etc :shock:
Singular wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:22 pm
I don't know if there is a mount/adapter that can stay on the bike, but that's a pretty insignificant piece in order to use the bike as a "normal" one inbetween trailer sessions.
Does look like an extra adaptor can be bought - so can have one on both bikes if needed.

Any brand / model recommendations?
It's all about the adventure :o .

mcfarton
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:15 pm

by mcfarton

Umm I am not sure where you live. I did the trailer thing but my kids are on their own bikes now. Here are the things I learned.

1 you need to keep your cadence smooth and high on the hills. When you grind it out the kid get whipped around.

2 your kid should have very strong neck muscles before you try this. They make slings for smaller children but that doesn’t make it a good idea

3 they need all their toys as they will get board quickly

4 snacks snacks snacks

5 a destination that is a playground or ice cream or a friends house makes them want to get in again

6 I would never pull a trailer on the road in my area. It was all sidewalks and paved trails. Having your child hit by a car is real.

7 if you are looking to do intervals buy a trainer and do it while they nap

8 pack a spare tube for the trailer also. If you can get a spare wheel and just put it in the trailer. Your kid isn’t going to be entertained by you fixing a flat.

9 be careful making sharp turns it will tip.

10 I got a fitness bike instead of my road bike for this. I didn’t mind leaving it attached to the trailer and walking away to the playground or store. I was watching my kid not my expensive road bike.

11 those trailer pulls made me stronger. I would feel like I was flying when I got out for a solo ride.


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mcfarton
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:15 pm

by mcfarton

Btw I had a burley bee. It was safe for the kids and I sold it for almost what I paid for it like 4 years later with a bunch of miles on it and one roll.


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spokenwords
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:21 am

by spokenwords

I used to hook up a trail-a-bike to my parlee (used an alloy post) then hooked up a trailer to the trail-a-bike. It worked suprisingly well. My oldest was on the "bike" and my youngest was in the trailer. My area had plenty of paved trails to use so it was all good. In regards to the trailers I didnt spend a lot on it but found that it just wasnt very comfortable to sit in for the kids. I added some padding which helped. Other than that the cheap trailer lasted quite a while and got plenty of use.
I do echo what was said above. You can ruin a kids relationship with cycling very early on.
"Notice how the door closes when the chimes of freedom ring." Joe Strummer
"this goes to 11" Nigel Tufnel
Dont move to Austin

jfranci3
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

Be careful doing u-turns with the trailer. A normal trailer will roll quite easily. It'd recommend the front /back inline type if you're going to ride near others.

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Conza wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:03 am
* Would get Garmin PM - Rally 200 for BMC. How would that work with trailer though - I change my weight by the trailer, and my daughter? haha. How would that effect things Power to weight; when I ride solo on other climbing bike? Data would be messy on strava, or should be like for like to an extent?

Power meters don’t measure weight. They measure torque and angular velocity in order to calculate power.

You don’t need to correlate power to speed when out on a training ride unless you are trying to get more aero or lighten your system weight specifically to go faster (in competition or so you don’t get dropped on a group ride.) For gauging your chronic fitness, it doesn’t matter.

Exar
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:28 pm
Location: The Netherlands
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by Exar

By far the best trailer I've used is the Tout Terrain Singletrailer (yep, the one in the 'Danny Daycare' video). It's narrower than the other trailers (about shoulder width) so there's less chance of hitting a kerb or parked car with a trailer wheel like with the Chariot-type. Average speeds are a good 10% higher I'd say, with higher comfort for your kid (having just one wheel to hit bumps versus two is a real difference, plus any bump you avoid, the trailer will avoid as well, contrary to the two wheeled ones).
Chains to the right!

jfranci3
Posts: 1472
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

Yeah, the side by side wheel ones are prone to catching curbs, branches, ballards, etc. They are also love-seat sized, so the kid doesn't have any side support and has too many options to move around. The in-line ones look a bit sketchy for kiddie entrances/exits. A windshield is a must for fall/spring duty or gravel.
The Weewho is cheaper, probably a better on a decent day, and till they're 6-7yrs as they can pedal - plus you can get an aero crankset https://rideweehoo.com/products-weehoo- ... /crank-set . https://www.instagram.com/p/CiMJ3DWuz-w ... _copy_link

I'd prefer the seatpost connection to the rear wheel as the trailer can push the rear tire laterally when cornering. It's not a dangerous thing, just gives bad vibes.

Exar
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:28 pm
Location: The Netherlands
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by Exar

The SingleTrailer is meant for younger kids (mine had her first ride in it after like 8 months, with all sorts of extra support cushions). The Weehoo doesn't have the ST's rollcage or protection from the elements, also it doesn't seem to have any suspension (the ST has an air shock with 160/200mm travel). Having said that the Weehoo is only 25% of the price of a SingleTrailer
Chains to the right!

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Conza
Posts: 231
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:28 am
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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by Conza

mcfarton wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:45 pm
1 you need to keep your cadence smooth and high on the hills. When you grind it out the kid get whipped around.
2 your kid should have very strong neck muscles before you try this. They make slings for smaller children but that doesn’t make it a good idea
3 they need all their toys as they will get board quickly
4 snacks snacks snacks
5 a destination that is a playground or ice cream or a friends house makes them want to get in again
6 I would never pull a trailer on the road in my area. It was all sidewalks and paved trails. Having your child hit by a car is real.
7 if you are looking to do intervals buy a trainer and do it while they nap
8 pack a spare tube for the trailer also. If you can get a spare wheel and just put it in the trailer. Your kid isn’t going to be entertained by you fixing a flat.
9 be careful making sharp turns it will tip.
10 I got a fitness bike instead of my road bike for this. I didn’t mind leaving it attached to the trailer and walking away to the playground or store. I was watching my kid not my expensive road bike.
11 those trailer pulls made me stronger. I would feel like I was flying when I got out for a solo ride.
2. Real strong neck muscles. I carried her most places around the house, turns out that inadvertently forced her to use her neck muscles more :shock: . Not in a rush, so a month or so - summer coming, can wait.
6. Fair. No bike paths on the road? Even then, no?
7. I wasn't, but was planning on going fast. 30km/hr etc. now, I wonder - can the trailer handle it?
10. I have been advised - frame damage, or whatever - other risks - no way should I use BMC or Giant... also off road capabilities limited. But I'd be sticking to paths/road anyway. Anything to this?
mcfarton wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:49 pm
Btw I had a burley bee. It was safe for the kids and I sold it for almost what I paid for it like 4 years later with a bunch of miles on it and one roll. Image
Like the fact its bike trailer only. Padding etc. an issue? Anything else you had to do? I am inclined to go premium; but not a fan of the fact - getting convertibility when I don't need it.
spokenwords wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:33 am
I used to hook up a trail-a-bike to my parlee (used an alloy post) then hooked up a trailer to the trail-a-bike. It worked suprisingly well. My oldest was on the "bike" and my youngest was in the trailer. My area had plenty of paved trails to use so it was all good. In regards to the trailers I didnt spend a lot on it but found that it just wasnt very comfortable to sit in for the kids. I added some padding which helped. Other than that the cheap trailer lasted quite a while and got plenty of use.
I do echo what was said above. You can ruin a kids relationship with cycling very early on.
Haha, epic. Good point re: ruining their relationship. Certainly want to avoid that.
jfranci3 wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:45 am
Be careful doing u-turns with the trailer. A normal trailer will roll quite easily. It'd recommend the front /back inline type if you're going to ride near others.
Straight lines I'd be imagining, but good to know. Front/back inline type? I did have visions of group rides :lol: .
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:27 pm
Conza wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:03 am
* Would get Garmin PM - Rally 200 for BMC. How would that work with trailer though - I change my weight by the trailer, and my daughter? haha. How would that effect things Power to weight; when I ride solo on other climbing bike? Data would be messy on strava, or should be like for like to an extent?
Power meters don’t measure weight. They measure torque and angular velocity in order to calculate power.

You don’t need to correlate power to speed when out on a training ride unless you are trying to get more aero or lighten your system weight specifically to go faster (in competition or so you don’t get dropped on a group ride.) For gauging your chronic fitness, it doesn’t matter.
Right. But weight is important when tracking power to weight ratio?

If I am 68kg w/ power stats, then attach trailer + kid = adding 20kg? more; unless I update the weight - won't my power to weight be off?
Exar wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:26 am
By far the best trailer I've used is the Tout Terrain Singletrailer (yep, the one in the 'Danny Daycare' video). It's narrower than the other trailers (about shoulder width) so there's less chance of hitting a kerb or parked car with a trailer wheel like with the Chariot-type. Average speeds are a good 10% higher I'd say, with higher comfort for your kid (having just one wheel to hit bumps versus two is a real difference, plus any bump you avoid, the trailer will avoid as well, contrary to the two wheeled ones).
Ha. I only see Singletrailer II sport and touring. This sounds bit more what I'm after. But supplier down under? :(
Like the 24" wheels.
jfranci3 wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:46 pm
Yeah, the side by side wheel ones are prone to catching curbs, branches, ballards, etc. They are also love-seat sized, so the kid doesn't have any side support and has too many options to move around. The in-line ones look a bit sketchy for kiddie entrances/exits. A windshield is a must for fall/spring duty or gravel.
The Weewho is cheaper, probably a better on a decent day, and till they're 6-7yrs as they can pedal - plus you can get an aero crankset https://rideweehoo.com/products-weehoo- ... /crank-set . https://www.instagram.com/p/CiMJ3DWuz-w ... _copy_link

I'd prefer the seatpost connection to the rear wheel as the trailer can push the rear tire laterally when cornering. It's not a dangerous thing, just gives bad vibes.
Weewhoo - I'd be looking to have fully enclosed I think.

----

Wondering am I going in the wrong direction? Should I have one of those inner seats on the top frame instead? Not exactly wanting that on either bike.

But also - a new bike to just ride with trailer etc? Oof I mean, I don't use both of my current ones atm :lol:

I do like the idea of not having to care when leaving anywhere per se. And no sentimental value attached to some shit kicker bike vs. BMC and the Giant.

My my wife also has a bike.. Merida juliet - and would be keen to ride with trailer too I think. *additional hitch is all that is needed I think* ?

Appreciate all thoughts/feedback.
It's all about the adventure :o .

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Matt28NJ
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:16 am

by Matt28NJ

I have three young kids, who are all old enough now that they're riding on their own bikes. They love to ride, the older two legit MTB now on our area trails. Now with travel sports, school, etc. the vast majority of their riding is within the neighborhood with their friends. I made sure they had a love for bikes young, always made it fun.

My experience - I chose NOT to do the trailer route. When my first kid was born, I was racing a lot and had great fitness. As recommended above, go trainer for your serious workouts. I converted to riding almost 100% indoors when the kids were young, banging out a zillion miles on the Computrainer. I live in a congested suburban area - the most densely populated state in the US (New Jersey) - and the thought of us getting hit by a car stopped me cold from the trailer route.

After my youngest was two, I did buy an attachable rear seat, which I put on my aluminum CX bike, and that was a fun compromise.

HeluvaSkier
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:38 pm

by HeluvaSkier

Over the past three years, I have done well over 3,000 miles with our little one in tow. We started when she was about 9-months and able to hold her head up and she loves it to the point where it has become our regular Saturday/Sunday summer morning activity. We go to playgrounds, coffee shops, ice cream shops, farmers markets, local festivals and events, etc.

The trailer I use is a Burley Minnow--very similar to the Burley Bee single seater (the Bee also come in a dual seater). The burley thru axle hitch is beefy. Mine required wrenches for install and now I just carry them with me in the trailer.

I use a Miracle CX-028 as my tow bike. It is spec'd with 10-speed Rival, mechanical discs, 46/36 SRAM S950 cranks, and recently swapped from a 40mm x 27mm wheelset (18mm internal) mounted with 35c Hutchinson Black Mambas to Light Bicycle WR65s (25mm internal, 32-33? external) mounted with 30c Vittoria Rubinos. We ride 25 - 45 miles on weekend mornings on a mix of residential and country roads and bike paths (about 50/50 between roads and paths). We occasionally ride hard-pack sand/gravel paths, but a lot of debris and dust gets kicked up into the kiddo's face, so not ideal unless they are really good at keeping sunglasses on. My wife and I both ride with Garmin Varias and we keep Bontrager Flare lights on the trailer. Our area is extremely flat, so climbing is not a huge issue, but wind is... I do climb a bit when we visit the Finger Lakes area of NY State, and usually climb with 36/30 with the trailer, but try not to hit grades above 10% for very long. I've had it over 35mph on descents many times and it is rock-solid at speed (this will not be true for all trailer brands and models).

A few things I've learned:
1. Aerodynamics tend to impact speed more than the extra weight (I am only ~145-150lbs)
2. If you want to correlate Strava numbers (solo vs. solo towing), take your normal average power over the same route and cut it in half (or double it if towing)
3. 30kph average is not an easy pace to achieve, though choice of a road bike vs. gravel bike may help; my faster average speeds for ~40 miles are 26-28kph
4. Having an extra adult is helpful, so encouraging your SO to join you is a good idea... one person gets base cardio, other person gets a solid workout
5. Ride a bike that handles well around people and on rough surfaces... you'll find yourself dodging more debris and people on paths than on open roads
6. We ride roads early in the morning when traffic is light or non-existant and paths later as the roads become busy
7. Have a destination (playgrounds, coffee shops, parks, farmers markets, ice cream, cafe/lunch spot, etc.)
8. Keep lots of toys in the trailer and make them reachable... as they get older, let them pick what they bring (have extra sunglasses for them)
9. Keep lots of kid-specific snacks and water... when it is hot we put a bottle filled with just ice in with her to keep her cool
10. Carry tools/tubes, etc. Space isn't an issue so carry everything you could possibly need (including diaper bag, blankets if it is cold, etc.). I was stranded once after a triple flat... not fun
11. You will get stronger--you're basically towing a 60-70lb parachute behind you... when you hit your first strong head wind and speed drops from 19mph to 12... you'll get it ;)
12. Ride long enough for the kiddo to nap, but not so long that they get impatient... adjust your routes according to their nap cycle and everyone will be happier

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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jfranci3
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Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:21 pm

by jfranci3

Group rides- you'll never get out of the house in a reasonable amount of time. There will be 20min of complete nonsense from the kid or mom every time you try to leave the house at a given time.

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