Do you care about aero when you're not racing?

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UpFromOne
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:23 am
Location: Olympic Nat'l Park, WA

by UpFromOne

I learned from Pantani's technique, not his diet.

spartacus
Posts: 831
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

Steve Curtis wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:11 pm
I saw somewhere that aero hoods - forearms level with the ground, is around 30w more aero than drops.
What a claim, I have 3 road bikes with power meters and there's no 30w difference between that position and the drops. (my forearms are not straight up and down in the drops tho)

Steve Curtis
Posts: 958
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:20 pm
Location: Hampshire UK, Dublin Ireland and Geneva Switzerland.

by Steve Curtis

spartacus wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:31 pm
Steve Curtis wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:11 pm
I saw somewhere that aero hoods - forearms level with the ground, is around 30w more aero than drops.
What a claim, I have 3 road bikes with power meters and there's no 30w difference between that position and the drops. (my forearms are not straight up and down in the drops tho)

That aero coach thing a few posts up also has some data regarding the aero hoods vs drops etc.

Lina
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

Steve Curtis wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:20 pm
spartacus wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:31 pm
Steve Curtis wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:11 pm
I saw somewhere that aero hoods - forearms level with the ground, is around 30w more aero than drops.
What a claim, I have 3 road bikes with power meters and there's no 30w difference between that position and the drops. (my forearms are not straight up and down in the drops tho)

That aero coach thing a few posts up also has some data regarding the aero hoods vs drops etc.
Even in that source the difference was 20 watts. And I refuse to believe that the same body position with the only difference being arms on hoods vs arms on drops results in 20 watts. Yeah sure, if you've got straight or almost straight arms on the drops and your body is more upright then that might be the case. But not with your body being in the same position as with aero hoods.

spartacus
Posts: 831
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

Lina wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:02 pm
Steve Curtis wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:20 pm
spartacus wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:31 pm
Steve Curtis wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:11 pm
I saw somewhere that aero hoods - forearms level with the ground, is around 30w more aero than drops.
What a claim, I have 3 road bikes with power meters and there's no 30w difference between that position and the drops. (my forearms are not straight up and down in the drops tho)

That aero coach thing a few posts up also has some data regarding the aero hoods vs drops etc.
Even in that source the difference was 20 watts. And I refuse to believe that the same body position with the only difference being arms on hoods vs arms on drops results in 20 watts. Yeah sure, if you've got straight or almost straight arms on the drops and your body is more upright then that might be the case. But not with your body being in the same position as with aero hoods.
This is what I think too. I have 36cm bars and if I tuck low in the drops I am as low or lower than on the hoods except more comfortable and my forearms are behind the bars and shifters. The power meter shows the same approximate effort in both positions as far as I can tell. 20-30 watts is a pipe dream, but, everyone is built a little different.

Interestingly when Remco Ennepoel rode away from everyone at worlds he spent a lot of time in the drops, but sometimes also used the aero hoods.

spdntrxi
Posts: 5103
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

I have not tested with my current bike, but aerohoods was faster(lower Cda) then drops.. on my current bike it "feels" faster as well. I'll test again at somepoint when I get another aero sensor.
2019 BMC TM01R
2002 Moots Compact-SL
2019 Parlee Z0XD
2020 Parlee TTiR

jlok
Posts: 2084
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

    I care about aero but not about speed. I want a crosswind stable wheelset when I need it.

    As a side track, I don't feel there's speed gain in aero road frameset. It's "intangible" to me as I can't measure nor feel it.

    Below are the "tangible" properties that I can care about and would probably pay for them:
    1. Good looking bike
    2. Geometries to provide great control and balanced ride, and exact fit to my body
    3. Light bike (only the first ride, but if you have N+1 then yes you can always feel it)
    4. Appropriate frame stiffness

    Windtunnel aeroness is a great marketing tool for that you can't "verify" it during every ride, so for the benefits of doubt the claims are always true. Then, its priority should be very low when choosing the N+1 bike.
    Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

    Singular
    Posts: 476
    Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:59 am

    by Singular

    spartacus wrote:
    Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:53 pm
    Lina wrote:
    Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:02 pm
    Steve Curtis wrote:
    Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:20 pm
    spartacus wrote:
    Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:31 pm


    What a claim, I have 3 road bikes with power meters and there's no 30w difference between that position and the drops. (my forearms are not straight up and down in the drops tho)

    That aero coach thing a few posts up also has some data regarding the aero hoods vs drops etc.
    Even in that source the difference was 20 watts. And I refuse to believe that the same body position with the only difference being arms on hoods vs arms on drops results in 20 watts. Yeah sure, if you've got straight or almost straight arms on the drops and your body is more upright then that might be the case. But not with your body being in the same position as with aero hoods.
    This is what I think too. I have 36cm bars and if I tuck low in the drops I am as low or lower than on the hoods except more comfortable and my forearms are behind the bars and shifters. The power meter shows the same approximate effort in both positions as far as I can tell. 20-30 watts is a pipe dream, but, everyone is built a little different.

    Interestingly when Remco Ennepoel rode away from everyone at worlds he spent a lot of time in the drops, but sometimes also used the aero hoods.
    spdntrxi wrote:
    Wed Oct 26, 2022 12:49 am
    I have not tested with my current bike, but aerohoods was faster(lower Cda) then drops.. on my current bike it "feels" faster as well. I'll test again at somepoint when I get another aero sensor.
    I'm riding my hobby horse again, but...

    ...as I've been touching a few times above, I'm convinced that all of the difference between the drops and "aero hoods" positions in these kinds of comparisons is down to shit form.
    Last edited by Singular on Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

    frostorama
    Posts: 41
    Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:29 pm

    by frostorama

    spartacus wrote:
    Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:31 pm

    This is what I think too. I have 36cm bars and if I tuck low in the drops I am as low or lower than on the hoods except more comfortable and my forearms are behind the bars and shifters. The power meter shows the same approximate effort in both positions as far as I can tell. 20-30 watts is a pipe dream, but, everyone is built a little different.

    Interestingly when Remco Ennepoel rode away from everyone at worlds he spent a lot of time in the drops, but sometimes also used the aero hoods.
    Also interesting is that Remco used shallow (Roval Alpinist) wheels for the WC win, given most of the field stuck to regular deep wheels on that day.

    Singular
    Posts: 476
    Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:59 am

    by Singular

    frostorama wrote:
    Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:03 pm
    spartacus wrote:
    Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:31 pm

    This is what I think too. I have 36cm bars and if I tuck low in the drops I am as low or lower than on the hoods except more comfortable and my forearms are behind the bars and shifters. The power meter shows the same approximate effort in both positions as far as I can tell. 20-30 watts is a pipe dream, but, everyone is built a little different.

    Interestingly when Remco Ennepoel rode away from everyone at worlds he spent a lot of time in the drops, but sometimes also used the aero hoods.
    Also interesting is that Remco used shallow (Roval Alpinist) wheels for the WC win, given most of the field stuck to regular deep wheels on that day.
    I bet it came down to him being a protected rider with the idea that Mt Pleasure was to be decisive.

    TobinHatesYou
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    Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

    by TobinHatesYou

    Singular wrote:
    Wed Oct 26, 2022 3:15 pm

    I bet it came down to him being a protected rider with the idea that Mt Pleasure was to be decisive.

    Exactly this.

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    spokenwords
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    by spokenwords

    Or they were playing some headgames with him in hopes that he wouldnt attack after the first 10k.
    "Notice how the door closes when the chimes of freedom ring." Joe Strummer
    "this goes to 11" Nigel Tufnel
    Dont move to Austin

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    nickf
    Posts: 1234
    Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm

    by nickf

    I feel very comfortable in my drops and use them a lot even riding solo. Not for aero though. Just from a comfort standpoint. The grip position feels natural in the drops, access to the controls is better, more braking leverage. Also always descend in my drops, I feel like I have better control, lower into the bike, lower center of gravity.

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