Is anyone completely done with these absurd prices?

[fatpinarellorider]

Thanks for censoring my mere mention of my previously censored post.
Was that really necessary?

[misteryellow]

A lot of people ignore that you also get more/new technologies for the increased prices. It's just as much a case of demand inflation as well as price inflation. An €/$ 1.000 bike easily beats that of a 1k bike 15 years ago, but now we expect it to have 12 gears, premium tyres, discs, brifters. Also a top-end bike used to be 10s mechanical with alloy wheels and is now a fully integrated, Di2/Etap bike with carbon hoops. The current Ultegra Di2 groupset easily outperforms the 10s Dura Ace mechanical for less of the costs, but only because the stickers say 'Ultegra' we rate it lower.

Is that right? 105 mechanical just released and it is TWICE as expensive as the 11 speed model. TWICE. I think these companies have been spoiled by the revenues they made during covid and just crank up the price. It costs more to make? Sure, but show me the money. Come one Shimano, release the production cost of these groups. Show me you are not another GREEDY corporation.

[ultimobici]

Is that right? 105 mechanical just released and it is TWICE as expensive as the 11 speed model. TWICE. I think these companies have been spoiled by the revenues they made during covid and just crank up the price. It costs more to make? Sure, but show me the money. Come one Shimano, release the production cost of these groups. Show me you are not another GREEDY corporation.

Nope. Comparing RRP on R7000 and R7100 yields a £13 increase if comparing exactly the same gear ratios, 50/34 x 11-34. If you want the 11-36 add a further £15.

R7000 has been around for 5 years and prices have gone back to the usual discounts pre-Covid.

Just under £700 for a mechanical groupset is reasonable. If you think it’s not, check how much your golf clubs cost and sit down.


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[djemz]

Spotted a specialized bike yesterday:
1800€ alu frame with shimano tiagra.
T I A G R A for Gods sake.

And wheels that don't deserve to be called road bike wheels.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn AC2003 met Tapatalk

[Ypuh]

I do agree prices have increase and during Covid often with a ridiculous amount (I had some left over 11s Dura Ace cassettes that I bought for €95 and made people happy by asking 'only' €140 instead of €240).

But discounts have come back and prices are coming down. Also I don't believe that profits have become outrageous or that new innovations become the new standard and can be produced at the same price than the previous generation. Bike developments have gone decently quick over the year; electronic groupsets, carbon wheels, integrated handlebar and stems, internal cable routing, hydraulic brakes etc.

What's more interesting is that the top end road bikes cost €14k and you can get top specced MTB's that pack loads more technology for €10k. There certainly is some 'air' in the top Trek/Specialized/Cervelo/Cannondale models and I can only assume that has something to do with World Tour Pro teams. A brand like Canyon would be far less popular with ambassadors such as Mathieu van der Poel and I doubt he works for free.

@djemz, I'll take today's Tiagra over Dura Ace 7900 without a second thought.

[misteryellow]

Is that right? 105 mechanical just released and it is TWICE as expensive as the 11 speed model. TWICE. I think these companies have been spoiled by the revenues they made during covid and just crank up the price. It costs more to make? Sure, but show me the money. Come one Shimano, release the production cost of these groups. Show me you are not another GREEDY corporation.

Nope. Comparing RRP on R7000 and R7100 yields a £13 increase if comparing exactly the same gear ratios, 50/34 x 11-34. If you want the 11-36 add a further £15.

R7000 has been around for 5 years and prices have gone back to the usual discounts pre-Covid.

Just under £700 for a mechanical groupset is reasonable. If you think it’s not, check how much your golf clubs cost and sit down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shimano- ... %20version.

Says otherwise.

[ultimobici]

Is that right? 105 mechanical just released and it is TWICE as expensive as the 11 speed model. TWICE. I think these companies have been spoiled by the revenues they made during covid and just crank up the price. It costs more to make? Sure, but show me the money. Come one Shimano, release the production cost of these groups. Show me you are not another GREEDY corporation.

Nope. Comparing RRP on R7000 and R7100 yields a £13 increase if comparing exactly the same gear ratios, 50/34 x 11-34. If you want the 11-36 add a further £15.

R7000 has been around for 5 years and prices have gone back to the usual discounts pre-Covid.

Just under £700 for a mechanical groupset is reasonable. If you think it’s not, check how much your golf clubs cost and sit down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shimano- ... %20version.

Says otherwise.

I’m my haste I only had one lever!

The fact remains that the difference is still £13. 105 has been discounted so heavily for so long you’re taking that as a comparison. That is hardly a fair comparison.

My point stands.


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[misteryellow]

Is that right? 105 mechanical just released and it is TWICE as expensive as the 11 speed model. TWICE. I think these companies have been spoiled by the revenues they made during covid and just crank up the price. It costs more to make? Sure, but show me the money. Come one Shimano, release the production cost of these groups. Show me you are not another GREEDY corporation.

Nope. Comparing RRP on R7000 and R7100 yields a £13 increase if comparing exactly the same gear ratios, 50/34 x 11-34. If you want the 11-36 add a further £15.

R7000 has been around for 5 years and prices have gone back to the usual discounts pre-Covid.

Just under £700 for a mechanical groupset is reasonable. If you think it’s not, check how much your golf clubs cost and sit down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shimano- ... %20version.

Says otherwise.

I’m my haste I only had one lever!

The fact remains that the difference is still £13. 105 has been discounted so heavily for so long you’re taking that as a comparison. That is hardly a fair comparison.

My point stands.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Point taken, thank you.

[tymon_tm]

Without searching I can find multiple 105 specced biked for under €1.000. These outperform most mid-range bikes from 10 years ago.
https://www.decathlon.nl/p/racefiets-rc ... 23&c=BLAUW
https://www.12gobiking.nl/sensa-romagna-comp-2022

I'm more of a SRAM guy, but Force AXS D1 can be found for €1.200 for a full groupset including cranks. Admittely, that's about the same price I paid for my first Ultegra 10s bike 15 years ago.

A fully kitted out Di2 aero bike doesn't have to cost €14k either. €5k will get you a long way, which is not too much more than 10 years ago but does offer disc, Di2, carbon hoops etc. It doesn't say S-Works or Cervelo on the downtube, that seems to be increasingly more important nowadays.
https://www.decathlon.nl/p/racefiets-fc ... 07&c=PAARS

it's not 105 specced without brakes and cranks (and possibly cassette too). plus that bike doesn't look like a proper road bike at all. perhaps some more sporty version of a commuter, but nothing else. couple of years ago you could get a 105/mavic Canyon Ultimate for not much more than that - we're talking a proven frame and solid ready to ride components

RCR? that's not even availible. we'll see how the pricing and specs go when it hits the shelves. Ultegra Di2 aero bikes start around 6k (see Reacto 8000) and as far as they are great bikes indeed they don't neccessarily tick all the boxes for someone who's willing to spend that much on a bike (e.g. often outdated wheelsets). Madone SL7 starts at what, 8000euro?

[joejack951]

^ The point is that due to technological progress all these new innovations are no more expensive to manufacture than their predecessors, yet bike companies charge an huge premium.

Case in point is the electronic groupset, cheaper to manufacture than mechanical, but sold at a higher price to consumers.

I get competitive markets and all that, but I and many others smell price gouging

To start, price gouging? Do you really need a new, top end electronic groupset? No one is prying that money from your hands.

While certain parts of electronic groupsets are clearly cheaper to manufacturer (namely shift levers) others certainly are not (like derailleurs). Plus an electronic groupset has a battery and associated electronics plus all the firmware/software to make it a consumer-friendly product. None of that is cheap to develop.

The ‘huge premium’ has always existed and exists in probably every industry where there are tiers of products. I was recently researching options for new football cleats and, while I was able to find a pair within my budget, I could have easily spent 2-3x as much for a proper ‘elite-level’ boot. As I’m no such player, I opted for a more reasonable purchase.

[Nickldn]

^ The point is that due to technological progress all these new innovations are no more expensive to manufacture than their predecessors, yet bike companies charge an huge premium.

Case in point is the electronic groupset, cheaper to manufacture than mechanical, but sold at a higher price to consumers.

I get competitive markets and all that, but I and many others smell price gouging

To start, price gouging? Do you really need a new, top end electronic groupset? No one is prying that money from your hands.

While certain parts of electronic groupsets are clearly cheaper to manufacturer (namely shift levers) others certainly are not (like derailleurs). Plus an electronic groupset has a battery and associated electronics plus all the firmware/software to make it a consumer-friendly product. None of that is cheap to develop.

The ‘huge premium’ has always existed and exists in probably every industry where there are tiers of products. I was recently researching options for new football cleats and, while I was able to find a pair within my budget, I could have easily spent 2-3x as much for a proper ‘elite-level’ boot. As I’m no such player, I opted for a more reasonable purchase.

Lol, posting on a cycling gear website in a thread about buying stuff to say no one needs to buy cycling equipment is not a great argument to support the huge price increases in the cycling industry.

Yes, we're talking about a sport/hobby and not food, or vital medicine, we all know that.

[warthog101]

Lol, posting on a cycling gear website in a thread about buying stuff to say no one needs to buy cycling equipment is not a great argument to support the huge price increases in the cycling industry.

Yes, we're talking about a sport/hobby and not food, or vital medicine, we all know that.

Yep. Stupid prices for something that is a hobby.
Simply not interested.
A new roadie is not even on the horizon. The 10 year old one works fine.
Probably is also moderated by me withdrawing from road to an extent and doing more gravel. So much better being away from cars.
Anyway, hopefully they do stabilise a bit. I fail to see the value in a $10k bicycle when you compare it to some of the other stuff that money will purchase.

[misteryellow]

^ The point is that due to technological progress all these new innovations are no more expensive to manufacture than their predecessors, yet bike companies charge an huge premium.

Case in point is the electronic groupset, cheaper to manufacture than mechanical, but sold at a higher price to consumers.

I get competitive markets and all that, but I and many others smell price gouging

To start, price gouging? Do you really need a new, top end electronic groupset? No one is prying that money from your hands.

While certain parts of electronic groupsets are clearly cheaper to manufacturer (namely shift levers) others certainly are not (like derailleurs). Plus an electronic groupset has a battery and associated electronics plus all the firmware/software to make it a consumer-friendly product. None of that is cheap to develop.

The ‘huge premium’ has always existed and exists in probably every industry where there are tiers of products. I was recently researching options for new football cleats and, while I was able to find a pair within my budget, I could have easily spent 2-3x as much for a proper ‘elite-level’ boot. As I’m no such player, I opted for a more reasonable purchase.

Ah yes, the 'do you really need' argument. Do you really need the latest iPhone? Nope, but when I do I don't want corporations limiting the charging speed and making spare parts 200% of their production cost. Remember that time that capitalism was meant to foster healthy competition which limited prices while making healthy profits? We now have companies muscling their way into market dominance or an oligopoly so they can charge huge markups while not having to pay their workers a fair price by leveraging globalization to their advantage. And this is just one industry. It is happening in almost ALL industries. You might choose to sit still and let these companies do their sweet talking, I choose to call them out on their absolute corporatist bullshit.

[joejack951]

Lol, posting on a cycling gear website in a thread about buying stuff to say no one needs to buy cycling equipment is not a great argument to support the huge price increases in the cycling industry.

Yes, we're talking about a sport/hobby and not food, or vital medicine, we all know that.

Then call it what is: overpriced, out of budget, too much money, etc. None of those phrases imply that it is some kind of necessary item.

[Mr.Gib]

Ah yes, the 'do you really need' argument. Do you really need the latest iPhone? Nope, but when I do I don't want corporations limiting the charging speed and making spare parts 200% of their production cost. Remember that time that capitalism was meant to foster healthy competition which limited prices while making healthy profits? We now have companies muscling their way into market dominance or an oligopoly so they can charge huge markups while not having to pay their workers a fair price by leveraging globalization to their advantage. And this is just one industry. It is happening in almost ALL industries. You might choose to sit still and let these companies do their sweet talking, I choose to call them out on their absolute corporatist bullshit.

Maybe the world is changing and your standard of living is simply falling? Back when you felt that prices for bikes were reasonable, there were many millions of people on the planet for whom a decent bike was far more out of reach than your current experience. These things happen and there is nothing unusual about it.

The notion of corporate greed as the root of high prices may be an understandable emotional reaction to price shock, but it's not a well informed analysis. Start from the premise that the people that run corporations have an obligation to maximize returns on investment for the shareholders who employ them. If they fail that job, they will be replaced by someone who will succeed. This is the only business model that has proven successful in producing productive growing economies.

I agree that a lack of competition is a major part of the problem, at least for groupsets, (but note that it is not a true oligopoly). But there is lots of competition for frames and those prices are still high - why do you think that is? Perhaps the result of the capitalist supply and demand dynamic? What do you propose as an alternate to this capitalist system? Should the government take over bicycle manufacturing to make sure everyone can afford an SWorks SL8? Or maybe the government should just heavily regulate the industry to keep prices low. Perhaps price controls? Spoiler - it's all been tried before in China, Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. and it doesn't work - a host of terrible things happen.

As for globalization - how do you reconcile complaining about high prices and globalization at the same time? You do realize that the damage to global supply chains is one of the major causes of current global inflation (aka high prices)? What would your bike look like (and how much would it cost), if every component of had to be sourced from your own county? I know what would happen to mine - I live in Canada, which means my bike, and every component on it, would be made of wood. And the wooden chain would have to be lubed with gravy from my poutine. No thanks, I'll keep my globally sourced Ostro and it's globally sourced components.