Is anyone completely done with these absurd prices?

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bouds
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by bouds

If the frame/parts prices weren't enough, some of the local bike fitters are nearing 500 for their services. Everyone getting squeezed.

by Weenie


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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

HammerTime2 wrote:BTW, their top of the line bikes, in inflation adjusted terms (based on CPI) would today cost about USD 4200, while mine would be about USD2800.
To compare a bike like that to today’s models is pointless.

I had a Gran Sport equipped Alan in 83 that was £600 new. Not top of the range but a nice bike.

A base model 911 from the same year was £20k. The same level 911 would set you back £90k - a hike of 4.5, taking that Alan to £2400.

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers ... nder-3000/

Every bike in this article would be perfectly acceptable as a better than average entry to the sport.

If someone simply must have the latest thing that costs. Back in the day a Super Record equipped Colnago or the like was as far out of reach as the £10k bikes of today. In 89 I wanted a TVT Carbone 92. Price then was £900 then, which is about the same as a made to measure carbon frameset now.




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flying
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by flying

Juanmoretime wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:33 am
While I do like to amuse myslef looking at new technology I now live to ride my bikes. Wrenching, lightening and upgrading my bikes is not part of my passion anymore, riding and improving me as a rider is.
Hear Hear ! :thumbup:

MiddMan
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by MiddMan

blaugrana wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:05 am
tymon_tm wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:20 pm
7k frames, 20k bikes - these are luxurious goods. but it's not the issue here - it's the price tags on entry level and mid-range equipment. most of cyclists can and do live without top groupsets, newest frames etc. the problem begins when stretching these absurdly high prices of top equipment means you also gotta pay more for that 'blue collar' aluminum bike on 105. because it's been equipped with electronic shifting, disc brakes, frame itself is 15% more aero, so instead of the usual ~1-1,5k on a price tag, it's suddenly 2-2,5k.
This is the worst part: the entry level 105 alu bike has gotten a lot more expensive over the last decade, but not really any faster. And on top of all the other reasons, at this price range disc brakes add a lot of weight and expense, only to offer a very marginal braking improvement because the rims aren't carbon anyway.
For all of us that already have one or several bikes, it's relatively easy to simply keep riding what we have until it falls apart, but it's worrying what this means to people wanting to get into the sport. The major brands might be happy milking the middle aged american/northern european demographic as much as they can, but what we need for the sport to grow are accessible bikes that are good enough for racing and that teenagers and children (or their families) of all backgrounds can afford. And at that, I think the industry is failing miserably.
100% on both accounts! It's ridiculous that bikes have become as expensive as a Ducati. And unless things change that might just be my next Italian bike!
montana05 wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:20 pm
The thing is that at least where I live (dutchman in italy) lots of cyclists are very arrogant when riding €10.000 bikes. Looking down on people who can not or choose not to pay thousands of euros happens a lot in my experience: if your kit is also not the latest and greatest people will look at you like you're too poor to ride with them...
I had a race in july where some guy asked me why I am using a cross bike with a 1x setup on the road....he told me to check out the possibility for a loan for a 'real bike'.....
I told him I have a 1 year old Audi rs6 parked at the parking lot and that I was happy to give him a ride home.
The sky high prices make people who can and who are willing to pay turn into an elite bunch of pricks.......
Sadly I often find this to be the case in the US as well. Meanwhile cyclists are getting run over by cars. We need to encourage more cyclists into the sport and reclaim the roads (especially in America), not drive them away with elitist mentality and sky-high prices. The bitter irony is that cycling has traditionally been an equalizing sport: a way to power yourself on two wheels and cover great distances--without a car, without petrol, with a train ticket. Hell, even LeBron James has cited cycling as one of his outlets as a youth that really helped give him independence:
https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/a ... ikes-kids/

ichobi
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by ichobi

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And i wonder if anyone is done with college fees?

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

you could post prices for hospital beds or basic medical treatment as well if your aim is to show USA is a 3rd world country when it comes to social services or economic gap. but what does it have to do with bikes again? :noidea:
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

ichobi
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by ichobi

There's no such aim. The point is many areas in life get price hike beyond absurdity, and it's just not the US, it's simply a convenient example. The college fees is of importance to me as much as bike price as the US waswhere I would like to do my master degree in but the price put an end to that. ( I did get the degree from other place in Europe about 3x less expensive, but let's leave it at that.).

If there's a market that is willing to pay for it, the company will charge for it. Same as education. It's as simple as that. But education is a good contrasting point where you have a solid decrease in the annual applications, obviously due to price which is not in line with the average american citizen's ability to afford for their children, or for themselves. I believe if the bike price keep hiking at this rate, we will also have less entrance from interested parties too. And if that's proven to be the case, the industry is only shooting themselves in the foot. I see no price correction coming in the near future. When this stuff goes up, it rarely if ever goes down.

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The top of the line iPhone way back in 2007 was 599 USD. Now the 'equivalent' model is 1,149 USD :noidea: Isn't it similar to high end bicycle?

JMeinholdt
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by JMeinholdt

Juanmoretime wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:33 am
While I do like to amuse myslef looking at new technology I now live to ride my bikes. Wrenching, lightening and upgrading my bikes is not part of my passion anymore, riding and improving me as a rider is.
This. I got to where I feel like I have a solid platform for both my gravel bike and my road/race bike. I used to constantly look for the latest and greatest things to try out. I got tired of buying and selling constantly and spending exhorbitant amounts of money ($400 for a saddle?!?). So now that my fit is spot on and my bikes are competitive, I just ride them.
Wilier Cento10AIR - SRAM Force AXS - Road/race
3T Exploro - SRAM Rival AXS XPLR - Gravel
Wilier Sestiere - Shimano Tiagra - Commuter

YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/@JMCyclingVideos

blaugrana
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by blaugrana

ichobi wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:07 pm
The top of the line iPhone way back in 2007 was 599 USD. Now the 'equivalent' model is 1,149 USD :noidea: Isn't it similar to high end bicycle?
But the current iPhones are several orders of magnitude more powerful, and have much better screen, camera, etc. If you spend 599 USD today on a phone you get something much better than that first iPhone.

In the case of bicycles, things aren't so clear. Sure, the top of the line models get some marginal gains from time to time, but then many entry level and even mid-range models end up in no man's land, and aren't really that aero while being super heavy. How much money do you have to spend today to get the equivalent of the 1000€/$ alloy bikes with Shimano 105 that we had ten years ago? And all of the technical "upgrades" from these 10 years of progress will be extremely marginal at best: things that might be convenient but won't really make you faster.

AJS914
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by AJS914

Also, the top of the line iphone didn't exist in 2007. There was one model with more or less storage. Now you can an iPhone SE for $400 which is a darn good phone or you can get the three camera pro max for 3x the price.

theStig
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by theStig

What I really want to see are margins.

I've brought up this point in the past and people have jumped down my throat.

Adjusting for inflation/income/economic status/etc can be a quagmire.

Take a $13k USD motorcycle and a $13kUSD road bike. Compare the profit margins. Hell, look at mid tier $5-6k road bikes and a $3-4k intro level road bike and show me the margins. I"m not talking about the slim LBS margins, I'm taking about mfg margins.

The point I'm getting at is, **IF** these margins are huge, 1) is there some degree of market collusion/price fixing going on. or 2) there is upportunity for someone with deep enough pockets and the right R&D resources to disrupt the current model and make a nice road bike more accessible.

Is it realistic to think someone can sell:

a safe entry level carbon road bike with disc brakes, mechanical shifting, alloy cockpit, alloy wheels in the $800-$1000 USD range

mid tier, same as entry level but with full carbon cockpit, lower spec carbon wheels in the $1200-$1500 range

premium-ish , same as mid tier but better carbon and electronic shifting for $2000-$2500

and ***still*** make a profit?

an example new kinda/sorta mid tier bike build with today's options

- Rival Etap AXS groupset - $1200
- chinese carbon frame - $500
- chinese carbon wheels - $500
- tires, carbon cockpit, saddle, misc -$300

puts you at a solid $2500, a bit cheaper if you consider some of the Sensah options.

If you look around you can still find previous gen 105 mechanical disc for ~$900, which can get you down to $2200 ...

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eucalyptus
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Location: Sweden

by eucalyptus

theStig wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:13 pm
What I really want to see are margins.

I've brought up this point in the past and people have jumped down my throat.

Adjusting for inflation/income/economic status/etc can be a quagmire.

Take a $13k USD motorcycle and a $13kUSD road bike. Compare the profit margins. Hell, look at mid tier $5-6k road bikes and a $3-4k intro level road bike and show me the margins. I"m not talking about the slim LBS margins, I'm taking about mfg margins.

The point I'm getting at is, **IF** these margins are huge, 1) is there some degree of market collusion/price fixing going on. or 2) there is upportunity for someone with deep enough pockets and the right R&D resources to disrupt the current model and make a nice road bike more accessible.

Is it realistic to think someone can sell:

a safe entry level carbon road bike with disc brakes, mechanical shifting, alloy cockpit, alloy wheels in the $800-$1000 USD range

mid tier, same as entry level but with full carbon cockpit, lower spec carbon wheels in the $1200-$1500 range

premium-ish , same as mid tier but better carbon and electronic shifting for $2000-$2500

and ***still*** make a profit?

an example new kinda/sorta mid tier bike build with today's options

- Rival Etap AXS groupset - $1200
- chinese carbon frame - $500
- chinese carbon wheels - $500
- tires, carbon cockpit, saddle, misc -$300

puts you at a solid $2500, a bit cheaper if you consider some of the Sensah options.

If you look around you can still find previous gen 105 mechanical disc for ~$900, which can get you down to $2200 ...

Anyone who has ever worked in a bike shop knows the markup is crazy! Especially for parts, it is literally nuts! Bikes too, at least in Sweden. If a Trek is selling for $ 10 000 then the shop bought it for $5000 and adding sales VAT to the final sale price.

This applies to most brands and some I can imagine even worse. Parts in Sweden, Shimano have a huge monopoly almost because SRAM is nonexistent here as a parts distributor so Shimano is adding huge HUGE markup because they can and Shimano knows that most average person does not have a choice. Therefore shopping from Germany is like Christmas if the currency exchange isn't screwing you over because Shimano in Germany is a lot cheaper.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

theStig wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:13 pm
What I really want to see are margins.
you're missing the point entirely. it's not a debate about bike biz's profitability, it's about how it pushes us to buy more overpriced stuff, and do so more frequently, often in the name of "improvements". it's about exploiting customers by pushing down their throats stuff they don't need, and make them have to buy more. it's about faking technological advancement to squeeze dollars like a cheap trickster (like with the forementioned high mod carbon)

and please, there's always someone crying a river how there's so little money in it - well, from my pov there are more brands, more gear, more options, more EVERYTHING than ever before. and the market just keeps on getting bigger, year after year, for 2+ decades now (at least that's how long I'm "in it"). if it tells ya it's not profitable, maybe economics isn't really your thing?
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

theStig
Posts: 421
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:22 am

by theStig

Missing the point? first message in this thread:
misteryellow wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:54 pm
Like the title says. I know supply chain issues have ramped up the price of goods but the prices of bikes and other cycling goods is seriously getting out of control. Anyone else frustrated?
There are multiple angles to this topic, perhaps a little less myopia and condescension?


tymon_tm wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 9:29 pm
theStig wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:13 pm
What I really want to see are margins.
you're missing the point entirely. it's not a debate about bike biz's profitability, it's about how it pushes us to buy more overpriced stuff, and do so more frequently, often in the name of "improvements". it's about exploiting customers by pushing down their throats stuff they don't need, and make them have to buy more. it's about faking technological advancement to squeeze dollars like a cheap trickster (like with the forementioned high mod carbon)

and please, there's always someone crying a river how there's so little money in it - well, from my pov there are more brands, more gear, more options, more EVERYTHING than ever before. and the market just keeps on getting bigger, year after year, for 2+ decades now (at least that's how long I'm "in it"). if it tells ya it's not profitable, maybe economics isn't really your thing?

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



ichobi
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

Re Margin; Looking at distributor price sheet for their dealers (ann their own purchased price) you can check the margin for the manufacturer (brand), which is usually around 50-60%, at least that's the margin for top tier flagship bike. It's their perogative. They are not doing charity. If they charge too much or getting too greedy the market will eventually correct themselves, or you get better competitor that offer better value. Canyon comes to mind. While their price has increased somewhat, they are still relatively cheaper than same tier brands.
AJS914 wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:00 pm
Also, the top of the line iphone didn't exist in 2007. There was one model with more or less storage. Now you can an iPhone SE for $400 which is a darn good phone or you can get the three camera pro max for 3x the price.
This is exactly the marketing pitch Shimano would have you believed when they release the 105 Di2. They would say but you could get the Tiagra at about the same performance at similar price as the old mechanical 105, and the the new 105 Di2 is now at Ultegra level! Our ultegra and dura ace goes beyond what they were last generation, hence justifying the price increased. This pitch is fault given the fact that the 105 still uses same level of material as before. They aren't as light as the old Ultegra Di2 For example.

I see them doing exactly the same thing as the smartphone makers. New iPhone can do wonder these days but do the Di2 groupset are 3x better than the 2018 iterations? Decidedly no. These companies make new things and move the flagpole for the latest and greatest up above to justify price increase. There's really no difference here.

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