Is anyone completely done with these absurd prices?

[tymon_tm]

there's a brand new LOOK 795 Blade RS on full DA (Di2 and C50 wheels) for 5k euro. I'd say that's a hefty bargain.

Where?

perhaps I misled you a bit - it's a brand new but previous generation model. at a nearly same prize they offer Orca Aero on 11sp mech ultegra...

i know they have a size L, not sure about other sizes. shop's located in poland, PM me if you'd like further details.

[Ypuh]

The bike boom is officially over.

I'm in the process of building up a new bike, and having trouble keeping up with all the sales.

My current bike is 5 years old with <25mm tyre clearance and rim brakes. I've always archived every cost made in Excel, but replacing everything like-for-like and my new bike hasn't gotten as much more expensive as one would have thought. All in it sums up to about €1.500 more. That includes all the high-end parts like Berk saddle, integrated cockpit, Zipp Firecrests, Quarq, one piece BB etc.

One major saving has been going from Red Etap22 to Force AXS and one major cost was the frameset going from €1.800 to €3.300. The rest remained pretty much equal.

[fatpinarellorider]

What gets me is that half the time those $20k top end completely off-the-shelf production bike builds don't even come with top end parts!

[misteryellow]

Anyone see the new S-Works bikes? 14.000 euro's..that's more than the price of a Ducati! And it is made in...China! But wait, there's more...the SL8 goes 'beyond gender' because apparently science has shown that there is NO difference between male and female geometries! For 15 years Specialized has bombarded us consumers that it is not done for a female to buy a 'male' bike. Nooooooo, women need their own bikes! I also wonder about the competence of Specialized engineers. If the SL8 is the fastest bike ever made, why wasn't it made before? What are they leaving on the table every few years? Are they reliant on UCI regulation? Did not read about it. No, apparently they are not capable of making the fastest bike the first time, it has to take them a few years to see their old design was apparently not the best. Specialized likes nothing more than claiming things are the 'fastest, 'best' and 'most aero', only for them to claim their designs, ideas are now outdated..S-works, the work of SUCKERS? Luckily, their bikes are still winning races after throwing millions at teams.

[cauchy]

In 2016 I bought a brand new carbon Giant Defy with full 11s 105. Now new mechanical 12s 105 is in almost the price of that entire bike

[misteryellow]

In 2016 I bought a brand new carbon Giant Defy with full 11s 105. Now new mechanical 12s 105 is in almost the price of that entire bike

I'm telling you, in 10 years Chinese/Taiwanese groupsets will take over.

[Stendhal]

Anyone see the new S-Works bikes? 14.000 euro's..that's more than the price of a Ducati! And it is made in...China! But wait, there's more...the SL8 goes 'beyond gender' because apparently science has shown that there is NO difference between male and female geometries! For 15 years Specialized has bombarded us consumers that it is not done for a female to buy a 'male' bike. Nooooooo, women need their own bikes! I also wonder about the competence of Specialized engineers. If the SL8 is the fastest bike ever made, why wasn't it made before? What are they leaving on the table every few years? Are they reliant on UCI regulation? Did not read about it. No, apparently they are not capable of making the fastest bike the first time, it has to take them a few years to see their old design was apparently not the best. Specialized likes nothing more than claiming things are the 'fastest, 'best' and 'most aero', only for them to claim their designs, ideas are now outdated..S-works, the work of SUCKERS? Luckily, their bikes are still winning races after throwing millions at teams.

Wrong. Get your facts straight. You are five years too late.

Since 2018, with the Tarmac SL6, Specialized has used a single aka "unisex" geometry for each bike size (e.g. 52, 56), not tied to gender, for its top racing bike, and sold the same bike model to everyone, and said so in its marketing. (Cervelo had come to the same conclusion on geometry years earlier.) Previously, Specialized had marketed its women's racing bikes under a different name, the Amira, but with the SL6 that stopped at the top spec levels and was phased out at lower spec levels because by then -- not 2023 as you claim -- Specialized had determined there were no meaningful geometry differences from its research (here, actual fit data). This is explained in this review:

https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes ... l6-review/

With the SL6, some complete bikes were sold as women's models but the frames were the same as nongendered complete models -- only some facets such as crank sizes and touch points (saddles) differed.

For raw frames,there were models with colorways of sponsored women's pro teams and one freestanding "women's" colorway at the S-Works level (black with purple red lettering), but the frame geometries were exactly the same as for sponsored men's pro teams and nongendered colorways. I know this because I bought the "women's" colorway even though I'm not one.

[robertbb]

In 2016 I bought a brand new carbon Giant Defy with full 11s 105. Now new mechanical 12s 105 is in almost the price of that entire bike

I'm telling you, in 10 years Chinese/Taiwanese groupsets will take over.

The world can, and likely will, change in cataclysmic ways within 2-5 years. Let alone 10. Many people including myself are actively avoiding Made in China everywhere possible and this is likely to continue to gain momentum as the West scrambles to decouple.

For the Japanese it's more than company rivalry, they have a long geopolitical history with the Chinese and both parties DO hold a grudge. For SRAM (an American company) it may fast turn into the same.

Even if conflict is avoided, the chance of which in my view is next to nil, Shimano and SRAM will cut prices drastically in order to squash the competition. Their margins are YUGE and they can afford to absorb lower prices when required.

[misteryellow]

Anyone see the new S-Works bikes? 14.000 euro's..that's more than the price of a Ducati! And it is made in...China! But wait, there's more...the SL8 goes 'beyond gender' because apparently science has shown that there is NO difference between male and female geometries! For 15 years Specialized has bombarded us consumers that it is not done for a female to buy a 'male' bike. Nooooooo, women need their own bikes! I also wonder about the competence of Specialized engineers. If the SL8 is the fastest bike ever made, why wasn't it made before? What are they leaving on the table every few years? Are they reliant on UCI regulation? Did not read about it. No, apparently they are not capable of making the fastest bike the first time, it has to take them a few years to see their old design was apparently not the best. Specialized likes nothing more than claiming things are the 'fastest, 'best' and 'most aero', only for them to claim their designs, ideas are now outdated..S-works, the work of SUCKERS? Luckily, their bikes are still winning races after throwing millions at teams.

Wrong. Get your facts straight. You are five years too late.

Since 2018, with the Tarmac SL6, Specialized has used a single aka "unisex" geometry for each bike size (e.g. 52, 56), not tied to gender, for its top racing bike, and sold the same bike model to everyone, and said so in its marketing. (Cervelo had come to the same conclusion on geometry years earlier.) Previously, Specialized had marketed its women's racing bikes under a different name, the Amira, but with the SL6 that stopped at the top spec levels and was phased out at lower spec levels because by then -- not 2023 as you claim -- Specialized had determined there were no meaningful geometry differences from its research (here, actual fit data). This is explained in this review:

https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes ... l6-review/

With the SL6, some complete bikes were sold as women's models but the frames were the same as nongendered complete models -- only some facets such as crank sizes and touch points (saddles) differed.

For raw frames,there were models with colorways of sponsored women's pro teams and one freestanding "women's" colorway at the S-Works level (black with purple red lettering), but the frame geometries were exactly the same as for sponsored men's pro teams and nongendered colorways. I know this because I bought the "women's" colorway even though I'm not one.

So I was not wrong, but had my dates mixed up. A different source told me differently, but my point still stands. Specialized did not take bike fitting data into account before it made its claims that women frames were warranted? What kind of research prompted them to market women's frames in the first place? Of course Bikeradar is not a publication which asks such questions. Here's my take: they started offerings women's frames in the first place to make additional money and they stopped making them because women weren't biting. Specialized acquired Retul in 2012, the SL6 was released in 2017... how many fittings did it take them to come to the conclusion that women's frames weren't warranted? Why did it take years? Cyclists need to stop drinking the marketing Kool-aid of companies like Specialized. Specialized abuse science and data to warrants its marketing and VERY little people are asking the right questions.

[misteryellow]

In 2016 I bought a brand new carbon Giant Defy with full 11s 105. Now new mechanical 12s 105 is in almost the price of that entire bike

I'm telling you, in 10 years Chinese/Taiwanese groupsets will take over.

The world can, and likely will, change in cataclysmic ways within 2-5 years. Let alone 10. Many people including myself are actively avoiding Made in China everywhere possible and this is likely to continue to gain momentum as the West scrambles to decouple.

For the Japanese it's more than company rivalry, they have a long geopolitical history with the Chinese and both parties DO hold a grudge. For SRAM (an American company) it may fast turn into the same.

Even if conflict is avoided, the chance of which in my view is next to nil, Shimano and SRAM will cut prices drastically in order to squash the competition. Their margins are YUGE and they can afford to absorb lower prices when required.

I thought the same thing, until I realised that the decoupling strategy cannot work. We are wholly dependent on China in a myriad of industries, not to mention our cost of living is such that we need the cheaper produced Chinese goods. Furthermore, China serves as a counterforce to the Western business model of subscriptions, proprietary parts and microtransactions. Look at the ebike industry at large, look at the car industry..Chinese companies are making headways in these industries and Western companies cannot follow. Shimano/SRAM/Campagnolo, they are fast pricing themselves out of the average consumer market with their products, while some Chinese companies (Farsports) have cemented themselves as trustworthy.

[cauchy]

It also affects my love for cycling somehow..

when I bought my current Spec Roubaix in early 2021, then upgraded with carbon wheels and DA cranck etc, ended up with price that now is completely ridiculous for me (6k us$ or more), I dont ride so much road bike as I did until 2020. If I was going to buy new roadbike these days I probably would go for Defy, which was great, or Canyon Endurace, for half the price.

2 years ago I sold my hardtail XC, having in mind Im going for full suspension. And I didnt buy at all. Couple years ago great full was for like 3-4k$, now it’s twice the price. Not 20-30%. It’s 100% or so.

Most fun of cycling now Im having of 2018 Spec Sirrus, I bought used for 500$, I put another 500$ to upgrade wheels and groupset. It’s ugly bike, but perfect commuter and adventurer.

[Ypuh]

A lot of people ignore that you also get more/new technologies for the increased prices. It's just as much a case of demand inflation as well as price inflation. An €/$ 1.000 bike easily beats that of a 1k bike 15 years ago, but now we expect it to have 12 gears, premium tyres, discs, brifters. Also a top-end bike used to be 10s mechanical with alloy wheels and is now a fully integrated, Di2/Etap bike with carbon hoops. The current Ultegra Di2 groupset easily outperforms the 10s Dura Ace mechanical for less of the costs, but only because the stickers say 'Ultegra' we rate it lower.

[Nickldn]

^ The point is that due to technological progress all these new innovations are no more expensive to manufacture than their predecessors, yet bike companies charge an huge premium.

Case in point is the electronic groupset, cheaper to manufacture than mechanical, but sold at a higher price to consumers.

I get competitive markets and all that, but I and many others smell price gouging

[tymon_tm]

A lot of people ignore that you also get more/new technologies for the increased prices. It's just as much a case of demand inflation as well as price inflation. An €/$ 1.000 bike easily beats that of a 1k bike 15 years ago, but now we expect it to have 12 gears, premium tyres, discs, brifters. Also a top-end bike used to be 10s mechanical with alloy wheels and is now a fully integrated, Di2/Etap bike with carbon hoops. The current Ultegra Di2 groupset easily outperforms the 10s Dura Ace mechanical for less of the costs, but only because the stickers say 'Ultegra' we rate it lower.

this isn't true at all

first of all there are no more 1k road bikes. the starting point is around 1500k for a Sora/Claris alu bike. second - Ultegra Di2 alone costs more than a full Ultegra bike did just few years ago. and if you want good carbon wheels and integrated stuff, lower versions of high end models don't provide these - look at Madone SL or Canyons; 105/Ultegra versions often come with 3rd tier wheelset, some shitty cockpit and in house tyres and saddles.

[Ypuh]

Without searching I can find multiple 105 specced biked for under €1.000. These outperform most mid-range bikes from 10 years ago.
https://www.decathlon.nl/p/racefiets-rc ... 23&c=BLAUW
https://www.12gobiking.nl/sensa-romagna-comp-2022

I'm more of a SRAM guy, but Force AXS D1 can be found for €1.200 for a full groupset including cranks. Admittely, that's about the same price I paid for my first Ultegra 10s bike 15 years ago.

A fully kitted out Di2 aero bike doesn't have to cost €14k either. €5k will get you a long way, which is not too much more than 10 years ago but does offer disc, Di2, carbon hoops etc. It doesn't say S-Works or Cervelo on the downtube, that seems to be increasingly more important nowadays.
https://www.decathlon.nl/p/racefiets-fc ... 07&c=PAARS