5 hours, 5 degrees, 5 cm of rain. Can you stay dry and warm?

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

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After a horrifying experience in 2019 that involved a full week of 10 – 12 hour days of almost non-stop torrential rain and single digit temperatures while in the mountains of central Italy, I swore that I would find a way to equip myself so that I could ride in any conditions in complete comfort. This past November/December in the Pacific Northwest, with it’s record-breaking atmospheric rivers and flooding, gave me the opportunity to test my gear.

From the top

Helmet
For rain I prefer a Specialized Decibel with a plastic shower cap secured on top. I like the Decibel because the way the vents are constructed, I can set the shower cap on the helmet in a way that leaves the bottom row of vents open – very important in warmer weather or when climbing. To stop the shower cap from flapping I put a knot in the band, so it fits tight and won’t inflate and pop off during descents. A lengthwise piece of gorilla tape to gather up any excess material guarantees silence.

Under the helmet I wear a fleece headband with a performance fabric cap. I wear the cap low over my glasses to keep them free of water droplets to maintain clear vision. The amazing thing is that even when the front of the cap is saturated, water will not soak through the fleece headband underneath it. Instead, when the cap can absorb no additional water, it just drips off the end of the cap bill. I have no idea why the fabric of the headband behaves this way, but my head stays perfectly dry and warm. I use Castelli and Ale thermal headbands and they perform similarly well.

Rain Jacket
Shake-dry. Don’t even bother with anything else. 100 percent waterproof in all situations and enough breathability to keep you comfortable as long as you don’t go too hard.

Gloves
I use a very basic thermal fleece underglove with waterproof shell gloves in lobster form. The lobster design reduces the number of seams and complications reducing the chance of leaks. The particular model I use https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5053-602/Drencher-Gloves are the typical gore-tex type membrane laminate construction that usually leak when the rain gets serious. I have 5 wet rides so far without a leak, though I expect they will ultimately fail like all such products. Cheap enough that I don’t mind having a few pairs in reserve, and keeping my durability expectations low. Hand sweating was not a problem, so a big win there.

Lower body
Waterproof mountain bike shorts. The pair I am using are from Peal Izumi and are extremely light and packable. They are no longer made. Comparable products such as the Endura MT500 Waterproof Shorts take up double the space in a saddle bag and are hotter.

Feet
Velotoze are the only product that can keep feet dry in constant rain. And even they can fail if the seal with the shoe or leg is in any way compromised. Legs must be freshly shaved for a good seal on the shin to avoid water ingress via capillary action. Any vents in shoe sole must be taped. On top of the Velotoze I wear a more traditional waterproof bootie for added warmth, and as a first line of defense against splashing water.

Saddlebag
I use a 2 liter waterproof bag from Columbus that is big enough to stow everything except the booties.

A few notes
My basic winter kit consists of Assos Habu tights and various jackets from Assos or Sportful depending on the day, which I am wearing underneath the waterproof gear. In warmer weather, basic summer kit with arm warmers, knee warmers, and maybe a baselayer would do the trick. The only part of my body exposed to water is my lower legs. Interestingly, although the Assos tights become saturated in the shin area, the inner surface feels dry against my skin. Perhaps it is a benefit of how the fabric works, or maybe it’s just the equalization of temperature of my skin with the saturated fabric, but I noticed no wet or cold feeling, nor discomfort of any sort in the area. The only part of my body that is wet is my nose, mouth, and chin area. Water also did not enter at the neck. I seemed to drip off my nose or chin, perhaps due to the aerodynamic position of my upper body – when it’s raining hard I get low. And whenever the temperature gets lower than 8 degrees C, to keep hands and feet warm, I use chemical heat packs.

The bike. Simple – full fenders, mechanical, tubeless.

In the end 5 hours, 5 degrees, 5 cm of rain and a great ride. I was warm and dry to the end.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

by Weenie


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Flasher
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by Flasher

Good for you, I look out of the window see rain, go back to bed :thumbup:

jlok
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by jlok

+1 to shake dry.

I got tempesta 2 gloves from Castelli, never tried it in heavy rain but so far so good it's waterproof. Hard to get it dried after wash tho.

May try the velotoze.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

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LouisN
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by LouisN

:thumbup:
I am shopping for spring stuff I may be missing right now. My daughter was in Vancouver for a month last february she had a few very wet and cold days.
I bought an extra shell (from Craft) but I'm not counting on it to be fully waterproof in constant wet riding. I also bought 2 pairs of warm gloves (Sealskins have this odd shape I'll never wear these :x )I wish MEC would do a version with only the first finger separated, as both my middle fingers tend to freeze due to an accident. I think I saw a Giro mitt model with this design, the 100 proof model for winter, probably not fully waterproof either. I seriously doubt any glove can keep cyclist's hands dry when riding in the rain for hours. Important is to keep fingers warm.
I usually ride when I get a maximum of 2 out of 3 weather conditons: rain, cold, wind. Sometimes rain + cold is enouh to keep me inside like said earlier. But if on a bike trip I understand the need to pull out the extreme weather artillery.
Louis :)

kode54
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by kode54

Nice chart diagram and info Mr. Gib!

I have the Gore rain cover for the helmet. Covers it on the outside, so less nook n' crannies for rain to seep in or collect in the vents.
I use the rain shell from Assos. The newest version is quite good.

I take my chances outside with 40% rain forecast...and if its not raining out at the start, I head out for a ride. If it rains during my ride, I can deal with it. I do not start any ride with it raining out and either wait till the rain stops or stay and ride the trainer.
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kode54
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by kode54

jlok wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:25 pm
May try the velotoze.
Same here...although I hear that they are quite fragile and you have to be careful how you put it on and peel it back. But its totally sealed so I would try it.
- Factor Ostro VAM Disc
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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

LouisN wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:57 pm
:thumbup:
I wish MEC would do a version with only the first finger separated, as both my middle fingers tend to freeze due to an accident.... I seriously doubt any glove can keep cyclist's hands dry when riding in the rain for hours.
In colder termperatures I slide chemical hand warmers in between my liner glove and whatever overglove I happen to be using - on the back of the hand. I position the handwarmer as deep into the glove as possible so it ends up at the base of my fingers. If that doesn't keep your hands warm its too cold to ride.

And yes you can have dry hands in the rain for hours. The shell gloves featured above have been perfect, admittedly to my surprise. And they are a somewhat breathable option. There are rubber coated work gloves that can also be used if necessary. I have several and have experimented with them. When used with the appropriate under glove, condensation from water vapour off the hands settles outside of the underglove. The hands can feel dry for up to a couple of hours. Certainly a good emergency item for a shorter duration rain event.
kode54 wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:18 pm
I have the Gore rain cover for the helmet. Covers it on the outside, so less nook n' crannies for rain to seep in or collect in the vents.

I take my chances outside with 40% rain forecast...and if its not raining out at the start, I head out for a ride. If it rains during my ride, I can deal with it. I do not start any ride with it raining out and either wait till the rain stops or stay and ride the trainer.
I prefer the disposable shower cap for a couple of reasons. They weigh about two grams and pack down to nothing. Keeping one in a saddlebag at all times is no space penalty. And, the dedicated helmet covers tend to cover the entire helmet limiting the option to stay dry and cool. My rain setup was developed for big mountain trips so I need maximum packability and gear that allows me to climb in the rain without boiling. It's very ghetto but it works.

I too do not head out in the rain without good reason. There are enough days to ride without rain so why bother. However, during winter, with my rain gear in that saddle bag, I have no anxiety at all when I see dark clouds on the horizon. And of course in the big mountains, as long as the temperature is above freezing, I have nothing to worry about.
kode54 wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:20 pm
jlok wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:25 pm
May try the velotoze.
Same here...although I hear that they are quite fragile and you have to be careful how you put it on and peel it back. But its totally sealed so I would try it.
Velotoze are extremely fragile. There is a 2.0 version that is more robust, but I have found that is doesn't seal quite as consistently. Properly sized, they are a nightmare to put on. It takes some experience to learn the little tricks that protect them from damage and to get them set up to be watertight. One key is to rub a tiny amount of baby powder/talc on the inside before and after use. Another is to never let them roll or bunch up while putting them on. Keep the upper cuff flat and pull them well up your leg as your foot goes through the cleat hole. Put on your shoe and then work them down carefully and pull the foot part over the heel first and then the toe of the shoe. Spend extra time to inspect how the Velotoze are sealed around the cleat - no wrinkles or bunching against the edge of the cleat. It should all look flat and stuck to the sole. I often wear a toe cover over them even in warmer weather to protect them from incidental damage from the pedals or road. I always travel with two pairs. If I do start to get a tear - usually around the cleat hole, I cut a new smooth edge with a sharp scissors.

Even the finest details of your shoe design can have an impact on performance. A slight contour in the wrong part of the sole can ruin the seal. I use SWorks 7 with taped sole vents which have managed a perfect seal 95% of the time. Very occasionally I will have a small amount of water find it's way in to a shoe but only after hours on the road. Ultimately condensation will make things damp. But with the right socks and additional shoe covers or chemical toe warmers if needed, your feet can feel warm and dry for hours.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

kode54
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by kode54

Good to know. Thx for clarifying the Velotoze fragility. As always, very comprehensive!
- Factor Ostro VAM Disc
- Factor LS Disc
- Specialized Aethos Disc
- Sturdy Ti Allroad Disc
- Guru Praemio R Disc

liam7020
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by liam7020

Zwift.
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"Sometimes you don't need a plan. You just need big balls." Tom Boonen

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Matt28NJ
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by Matt28NJ

Kudos to you for adapting and being out there in the miserable conditions. I've adapted too... just to doing indoor training. Best of luck to you!

bobones
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by bobones

Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:12 am
<lots of good stuff ...>
I'd rather ride for 4 hours in the wet than 2 on the trainer, so I go out in crap weather fairly often.

My Velotoze didn't last a week, but I have had better luck with long Spatz neoprene overshoes. You can wear them over bib longs, but on really wet days, it's better to wear them under the bibs so that your socks cannot get wet from capilliary action. These cheaper alternatives from Wiggle also look decent.

I can usually get by with just neoprene gloves as I don't feel the cold on my hands as much as I do on my feet, but I'll go with lobster style gloves for really cold, drier days.

Frozen toes is what used to kill cold rides for me, but I swear by these chemical foot warmers and wear them most days when it's under 7 or 8 C, and even on the trainer in my garage. I find I can reuse them for a few days just by sealing them in the plastic sleeve that I carry my phone during rides. You don't really feel the heat, but your toes stay snug and comfortable the whole time.

I have a Castelli Idro Mk 1 shakedry jacket, which is great, but I still find that water gets down my neck and my base layers will eventually end up soaking if I am out long enough. What's the secret there?

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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

bobones wrote:
Wed Feb 23, 2022 4:30 pm
I have a Castelli Idro Mk 1 shakedry jacket, which is great, but I still find that water gets down my neck and my base layers will eventually end up soaking if I am out long enough. What's the secret there?
I think the the helmet, helmet cover, and cap are key. My face,neck, and head are in the shelter of these things so water drips off onto my shoulders or upper back. The bigger the profile of helmet and cap, the greater the protection - in this situation the "mushroom" look is good. If your face/head can get wet, then your neck and utimately anything below can get wet. Of course having a close fitting collar helps, but if you have water running down your face and neck nothing short of waterproof tape seal around your neck will keep your baselayer from soaking up water.

If you are in a serious downpour for any length of time and moving fast, it's like being blasted with a firehose. Everyone will get wet no matter what they are wearing.

bobones wrote:
Wed Feb 23, 2022 4:30 pm
My Velotoze didn't last a week, but I have had better luck with long Spatz neoprene overshoes.
My perspective is always usefulness on epic mountain adventure, so I view Velotoze as a packable emergency item is that is almost disposable. With careful handling I have managed 10 - 12 uses from a pair - That is a lot of riding in real rain. The 2.0 version is sturdier and will last a good deal longer.

I've always wanted to try Spatz, but I doubted they would seal around the bottom of a shoe, and you would need a cargo trailer to carry them if you ever took them off - so no to travelling with them. And doesn't your whole lower leg get hot and clammy? And as you note, even if they seal around the shoe, you must wear them against your skin to prevent water from soaking down through tights and socks. That's a lot of clammy neoprene against your skin. With Velotoze I just have 2 or 3 cm of contact against bare skin above my sock. I guess you could wear taller socks with the Spatz.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

bobones
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Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

Mr.Gib wrote:
Wed Feb 23, 2022 5:45 pm
I think the the helmet, helmet cover, and cap are key. My face,neck, and head are in the shelter of these things so water drips off onto my shoulders or upper back. The bigger the profile of helmet and cap, the greater the protection - in this situation the "mushroom" look is good. If your face/head can get wet, then your neck and utimately anything below can get wet. Of course having a close fitting collar helps, but if you have water running down your face and neck nothing short of waterproof tape seal around your neck will keep your baselayer from soaking up water.

If you are in a serious downpour for any length of time and moving fast, it's like being blasted with a firehose. Everyone will get wet no matter what they are wearing.
I might need to do a bit more to protect my head, but I think you're right: if the rain is heavy and persistent enough, it's just a matter of time before it gets down there.
Mr.Gib wrote:
Wed Feb 23, 2022 5:45 pm
My perspective is always usefulness on epic mountain adventure, so I view Velotoze as a packable emergency item is that is almost disposable. With careful handling I have managed 10 - 12 uses from a pair - That is a lot of riding in real rain. The 2.0 version is sturdier and will last a good deal longer.

I've always wanted to try Spatz, but I doubted they would seal around the bottom of a shoe, and you would need a cargo trailer to carry them if you ever took them off - so no to travelling with them. And doesn't your whole lower leg get hot and clammy? And as you note, even if they seal around the shoe, you must wear them against your skin to prevent water from soaking down through tights and socks. That's a lot of clammy neoprene against your skin. With Velotoze I just have 2 or 3 cm of contact against bare skin above my sock. I guess you could wear taller socks with the Spatz.
Totally different use case for me. The spatz are worn on cold and wet days in Scotland so they're staying on for the whole ride, and I usually welcome any extra warmth that comes my way. I really don't notice them on my skin after a few minutes and claminess hasn't been an issue. I always partner them with dedicated winter boots that go up the ankle and have decent water protection of their own, so water getting in from the sole isn't really a problem. They really have been a game changer for me in keeping my feet warm and dry, which plays a huge part in me staying comfortable enough to actually enjoy riding in bad weather.

by Weenie


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