2024 Pro thread

[Requiem84]

Yeah and now watch 6:15 .

Vingegaard dropped straight out of the wheel of Pogacar on the flats.

[spud]

Yeah and now watch 6:15 .

Vingegaard dropped straight out of the wheel of Pogacar on the flats.

what's your point? That TP was better? That's incontrovertible. NOBODY else was with JV when he got the tow back to TP. In that particular instant, while he was not as good as TP, he was better than RE, PR, or any other GC contender. Sure, it's due to great teammates, but also being very attentive and maintaining good positon so he can respond to moves.

[Karvalo]

Vingegaard dropped straight out of the wheel of Pogacar on the flats.

OK, gravel is so good at shaking things up and disrupting the GC order that JV was way off the pace and lost zero seconds. Better?

[Requiem84]

Vingegaard dropped straight out of the wheel of Pogacar on the flats.

OK, gravel is so good at shaking things up and disrupting the GC order that JV was way off the pace and lost zero seconds. Better?

Yeah, that's better .

But does it matter whether he lost no seconds? Wasn't it already exciting that he got dropped and he needed his team mates to get back? That is what bike racing is all about, the combination of individuality with team work. Where a rider that is maybe a bit slower physically can still make up for it with good team work and tactical choices.

I loved it that VLAB already in the prep extensively practiced whom's bike he should use. Didn't Tratnik even ride with a slightly adjusted bike that suited JV better in case it was needed?

I thought it was a brilliant stage.

[Karvalo]

But does it matter whether he lost no seconds? Wasn't it already exciting that he got dropped and he needed his team mates to get back? That is what bike racing is all about, the combination of individuality with team work. Where a rider that is maybe a bit slower physically can still make up for it with good team work and tactical choices.

Sure - but that goes back to my original point that gravel/cobble stages don't tend to disrupt the w/kg battle unless something breaks or someone crashes, and that's not really something to aim for by packing more of them into each race.

it was an amazing stage, great for tv viewing and I'm always happy to see one like that in the route. But packing a bunch more of them in to disrupt the GC battle is not a good idea IMO. Sure, people can and do crash or puncture on any kind of stage but there's a limit to how much random chance shuld be intentionally introduced.

[Requiem84]

We don't have too many examples of comparable stages yet to say with certainty that it does not disrupt the w/kg battle.

One counter example would be Giro 2021 where Evenepoel losts loads of time on a similar stage.

Another point of view is: does the TdF really needs to ONLY be a w/kg battle, or should the winner be more allround than only pumping most watts per kg of bodyweight?

[spud]

^ Reality is that with best GC teams as strong as they are, it's always going to come down to a watts/kilo contest - that's the only place a difference can be made, unless of course you are TP, where you can launch with 50K to go and stick it. The only question is whether TP will be willing to try the tactic in a GT stage when has has to be good the next day too.

[Requiem84]

^ Reality is that with best GC teams as strong as they are, it's always going to come down to a watts/kilo contest - that's the only place a difference can be made, unless of course you are TP, where you can launch with 50K to go and stick it. The only question is whether TP will be willing to try the tactic in a GT stage when has has to be good the next day too.

Let's say they'd ride Paris Roubaix oarcours as a stage - I'd be very much inclined to think Pigacar could take a chunk of time out of the other GC guys.

But yeah, why would he empty himself for a few hours if he can take even more time during a 40m climbing effort indeed...

[EdWiser]

Good podcast with Ned Boulting long time announcer of ITV’s TDF coverage.
History of the tour and his thoughts how racing has changed over the years


https://youtu.be/yTsuIN-xVuQ?si=

[eins4eins]

But yeah, why would he empty himself for a few hours if he can take even more time during a 40m climbing effort indeed...

Because he loves to race and races on instinct.

[Karvalo]

^ Reality is that with best GC teams as strong as they are, it's always going to come down to a watts/kilo contest - that's the only place a difference can be made, unless of course you are TP, where you can launch with 50K to go and stick it. The only question is whether TP will be willing to try the tactic in a GT stage when has has to be good the next day too.

Let's say they'd ride Paris Roubaix oarcours as a stage - I'd be very much inclined to think Pigacar could take a chunk of time out of the other GC guys.

Quite possibly, but for the same reason he wins in the mountains right now. He's just stronger. Again I'm not sure how it disrupts the GC battle when (if nothing breaks) the best GC rider is nailed on to take time!

As an aside I remember reading an article during the Dumoulin era which theorised that pure climbers would die out as GC contenders because modern racing and team strength in depth was limiting the amount of time it was possible to gain in the mountains and TT specialists who can hang on in the mountains would beat them by too much on the flats. So that aged well!

[Konsi]

Can we stop calling riders TP? I am never sure whether it is about Pidcock, Pogacar, or Pinot ...

[robbosmans]

Its obviously Pinot

[Karvalo]

He is the Goat after all

[Johnny Rad]

Can we stop calling riders TP? I am never sure whether it is about Pidcock, Pogacar, or Pinot ...

Its obviously Pinot

He is the Goat after all

FTW: